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I think that's one of the benefits that that array can speak to across the industry, is arrays been around for 30 years. So we have systems that have been in the field for decades. And so we do have, you know, obviously, much smaller at the at the at the early stages, and really have grown in scale over over the past several years, but those products sitting, sitting in the field, have provided us a lot of information as far as the longevity and the reliability of these products in array as a leader in that space, and that's one of our key value propositions that we we bring forward. Are
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you speeding the energy transition here at the Clean Power Hour, our host, Tim Montague, bring you the best in solar, batteries and clean technologies every week. Want to go deeper into decarbonization.
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Today on the Clean Power Hour, we're going to do a deep dive on a topic that is near and dear to many energy professionals hearts, and that is bringing down the cost of renewable energy. And my guest today is Aaron Gable Nick. He's the Chief Strategy Officer and Chief Technology Officer for array technologies, the global tracker and racking manufacturer. Welcome to the show.
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Thanks. Tim, pleasure to be here
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before we get into it. Check out all of our content at cleanpowerhour.com Give us a rating and review on Apple or Spotify. Tell a friend about the show and reach out to me on LinkedIn. I love hearing from my listeners. So Aaron, you have been at array for about a year and a half, and you're relatively new to the solar industry. So I'd love to hear a little breakdown of how you got there at array and why array?
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Great. Well, I'll start with the sort of the why array part. So I'm, as you mentioned, I'm Chief Strategy and Technology Officer for array, and I honestly think it's the best job here. I lead the strategy organization, sort of working to define Ray's global strategy for its existing and future business. And I'm also leading technology and product organization, which includes product management, the technology department, new product development, as well as application sustaining engineering. So from this viewpoint, I have the opportunity to help shape the future direction of array and lead a great group of people in its development and execution.
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So I really, I'm really honored and pleased to be to be in this role. And as you mentioned, Tim, I, you know, came to array a little bit over a year and a half ago. I spent most of my career in, you know, consulting and working for the traditional energy and industrial companies in that space. And I think that that background provides additional perspective on the energy landscape in which we operate, and perspective and how others in the energy ecosystem think about sort of opportunities and growth. And there were sort of a couple key aspects in that were formative in my decision, in my career transition the first as my career was developing in traditional energy space, right, the importance of sustainability and the energy transition was becoming more and more apparent and in sort of the consciousness of the of the traditional energy industry, and My role in those industries was more on the strategy and business development side. So it's often at the forefront of seeing what was happening and participating in the latest technologies and innovation in alternative energy space, such as renewable fuels, carbon capture, green hydrogen, green methanol and solar. So I could see, you know, see that opportunity growing consistently. So when the opportunity to arose to join array, I was sort of well prepped in my in first for many years in understanding the importance of alternative energies. And, you know, specifically with array, that the mission, you know, really called to me so that, you know, the mission is generating energy with integrity for a sustainable world. And that resonated very well with with myself and with many employees, and I think pretty much everybody in the industry that resonates with so we want to provide energy, employment, advancement to society, done so with integrity and with a sustainable mindset.
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And I don't think anyone can disagree with those with the with that purpose, and that is very important to me, and I think important to many of the array employees, and I think the broader, broader industry as well cool and that. Part of the decision that I came to join.
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Well,
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you've joined a great company. Array is very well known in the utility solar space, anything you know, say, five megawatts and up where you're using single axis trackers. If you are an energy professional and don't work in utility space, then you may not be super familiar with trackers, so let's just break down what is the value proposition of using a single axis tracker versus fixed tilt solar racking.
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So, so the story goes back to our to our founder, our founding father, Ron Corio, who who built array.
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And the story goes, at least so I've been told Ron was working on enhancing solar arrays and solar panels themselves, and realized a little bit over 30 years ago that the greatest impact that he could have on increasing the efficiency of solar panels was to have them track and follow the sun, and that's the genesis of a ray. So what we do with the single axis tracker is follow the sun as it rises in the east and sets in the west. It's a little bit more more sophisticated and complicated than that, right?
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There are cloudy days, there are wind events, severe weather events as well, where we have to protect the system. But effectively, you know, essentially, the main purpose of array and for single axis trackers is to follow the sun as it rises and sets throughout, throughout the day. And you know, at various latitudes, you know, there are different enhancements, but percentages.
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But you know, the around 25% or more efficiency is gained by following the, you know, the sun as it traverses over the sky, than if it were just to sit in the fixed position facing south
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at the end of the day. What trackers do is they bring down the the lifetime or long term cost of energy, right?
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Because you're you're getting more energy per kWh, or per kW of solar in Illinois, okay, here in the upper Midwest, you install a tracker, you get 1600 plus kWh, kW P out of your array for fixed tilt, you're looking at maybe 12 or 1300 so it is a big Delta, and there is a trade off, because You're now installing a mechanical device that moves the panels east and west right. The panels are ostensibly flat to ground, and then they point east in the morning and West in the afternoon to maximize the amount of radiation they're gathering.
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And we, in some respects, we're doing a grand experiment Aaron, because trackers completely swept the field in a very short period of time. We went from using mostly fixed tilt to now using 96% I think is the latest statistic trackers for utility solar in the United States. So it, you know, it pretty much blew fixed tilt out of the water. The exception being very far northern climbs as you get into the very far northern parts of the US or Canada, the advantages of a tracker go away, and you will resort to fixed tilt just because of the angle of the sun in the sky. But this mechanical device is mechanical, and it can fail, but it can also help to save your solar array.
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So let's talk about this. I'm not trying to poke a stick in in a Ray's eye at all. I mean, like we said, you completely dominate trackers. Completely dominate the industry, and array is the number two global tracker manufacturer, only after next tracker. So you're doing something right, clearly. But what are the pros and cons? I guess, as you see it, of having this mechanical, you know, having to move the thing with with motors and gears, the gear is very prominent in your particular solution. And I love how you have that, that name carved out of that center drive gear. But what are the pros and cons of using trackers?
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Yeah, I think, I think they're mostly pros, but I am probably biased in that, in that statement, but right as you referred to, you know, the use of trackers and sort of its dominance, at least in the US, you know, I sort of break it down in what I call the three L's, you know, land, labor and latitude. I think you mentioned latitude. You know, previously, as you get further and further north in the northern hemisphere, South and the southern hemisphere, you know, the efficiency of a. Tracker is reduced at that point. You point the panels most just south, and you let them sit from a labor and latitude, or labor and land perspective, right as land costs become very, very high, or labor costs become very, very high, putting in a tracker is is sometimes not the best answer, because with a tracker, you need space for the trackers to track, you know, for them to move, and they can create shadows as they as the sun traverses the sky. So you want to have them spaced out further further apart. So, you know, one of the areas where you would consider fixed tilt is where you have a very expensive piece of land, where you don't have the space for for a tracker, you know, another is if installation labor is very, very high. You know, trackers are more expensive to to install depending upon the cost that cost of labor. But as you mentioned, like in the US, you know, the market is speaking with with 90 plus percent of at least utility scale solar being, being with a tracker, and that's really just due to the efficiency, as you previously mentioned, the the amount of energy gained with with investment is very clear, it's very economical to have the tracker. Makes a lot of sense, especially for the utility scale and very large scale sites that are oftentimes in areas where there is more, less costly land that's that is available, and therefore you have the benefit that comes with the tracker.
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What about O and M? Because that's where this kind of grand experiment is happening. We just don't know how well trackers are going to hold up. But how long has array been making trackers? What are some of your what are the historical data telling us? And in general, what can asset owners expect out of their single access trackers?
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And I think that's one of the benefits that array can speak to across the industry, is arrays been around for 30 years, so we have systems that have been in the field for decades. And so we do have, you know, obviously, much smaller at the at the at the early stages, and really have grown in scale over over the past several years. But those products sitting, sitting in the field, have provided us a lot of information as far as the longevity and the reliability of these products in array as a leader in that space. And that's one of our key value propositions that we we bring forward our design, at least for for the dura track platform, which is the platform that we sell in the United States, is a mechanical in nature. There are no batteries, so there's limited O and M there. There's no scheduled O M that's required for our system. So it is, it is designed to sit in operation for 30 years with limited with no scheduled maintenance and and that is really one of the benefits that we have. It's really a, you know, sort of set it and forget it, type of, type of system that we have, that we have developed, you know, that that comes with, you know, there are a lot of benefits that come from that a lower lcue, from an O and M perspective, comes, comes with that as well, and, and that's, that's how we're so known in the industry. And actually, our, the name of our, of our gold standard product, being dura track, comes from its durability in the field, which you know, to operate it outside in harsh weather conditions for 30 years is not an easy feat.
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Let's talk a little bit about your journey and coming from outside of the solar PV industry. What is your experience, both at array and I guess in general in the solar space, We're famous for our solar coaster. We have entered a period here in 2025 of relatively moderate turbulence, I would say, with a new administration in Washington trying to attack some of the incentives. I think the 30 year outlook is still very good for solar. We are, you know, globally, headed towards a grid 50% powered by solar PV. Will we do it by 2030, 2035, 2050, that is TBD. But we are going to do that. I think there's no question in most people's minds who are in the know. But what has your journey been? Like Aaron, and what is your, I guess, critical assessment of our industry,
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sure. Well, I think you described it well, right? Some short term turbulence for sure or unknowns.
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So, you know, it's pretty clear we don't know exactly where tariffs and tax credits and and other things are likely to go.
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But as you look at things from a from a long term perspective, I can't help but you know, sort of agree with you and and I say that more from a global perspective of seeing where, from an LC perspective, where solar is going, and it's long term trajectory, so it might be, there might be some bumps in the road, certainly in the near term, but the long term outlook looks, looks fairly, you know, fairly solid. And I sort of bring to that, you know, before I joined array, I was working for a large national oil company in the Middle East, and living in the Middle East, working on some of their downstream strategy. And you could even there, you could see the mind, mind shift, mindset shifting.
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And right the saying used to be and I was working in Downstream strategy, sort of it's a matter of time before we realized that the natural resources above the ground are worth more than that the natural resources below the ground. And this is, this is in an area, in a country that's not short of cheap energy coming from traditional fossil fuels.
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And if you look at where solar is growing the fastest, and where the largest, certainly utility scale solar projects are being built. It's in the Middle East, and a lot of lot of companies, including array, are are looking towards the Middle East for for that growth. So whether it's a, you know, a 3.7 gigawatt project in green hydrogen, or huge 15 gigawatt tenders that are being released in Saudi Arabia, there are, this is, you know, again, a region where they're not short traditional forms of energy, yet they're buying in and building solar. So even in those regions, you know, the future is fairly clear. So even though there might be some short term turbulence in the US, and things are settling down now globally, and you see where things are going, and you see where others are taking, taking solar, and I think that that's a good position to be in
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in the pre show, we talked about severe weather, which is on many people's minds.
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You know, whether that's, I mean, some things directly impact the racking, for example, hail and wind. There are other forms of severe weather that are also in the news, like fires, but that's not something you can really control or impact necessarily with your tracker, but hail and wind for sure, you can improve the resiliency of a project by doing different things. What is a raise current thinking on and I guess, deployment of technology to improve the survivability of severe weather?
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That's a great question. I'll speak about Win, win first, wind and arrays perspective or technology in dealing with with wind is unique in the tracker industry, so many single access trackers that are out there, not, not, not array, well, including array for for our European and in South American platform, use something, what's called active stow. And what that means is that they have a methodology. In mind that when they read wind speed and wind duration and based on a certain algorithm, will put the panels into a safe mode, a safe, safe stove position when there is high wind. And so there's there's an algorithm based on wind speed and duration of the gusts, etc, where you do not want the the system to be not protected against high winds, the rate dura track position is unique and different, different from that there we actually Use a physical mechanism to protect against high wind, and that physical mechanism is a as called a slip clutch. So basically the way that it works is that, especially for a row that's on the exterior, experiences a very high gust of wind that basically pushes the.
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In the row into a safe stove position, which is a mechanical stop position for us at 52 degrees, and that basically the wind will come along and push, push the row into that safe position that oftentimes blocks the interior rows from that that that high wind. But if the wind is strong enough, and if the you know terrain is different, and you actually get that that high wind, you will push some of the other rows as well. So basically, the wind pushes our our panels into a safe position, and our tracker into a safe position from from a high wind perspective, that allows for all the other rows to keep on tracking. They track normally in the windy condition, and only the rows that are affected by the wind are pushed, pushed by the wind into a safe so stay safe, safe stove position. What that does, effectively is because the other rows are still tracking. They produce more electricity, more energy. And we have studies, and we've done a number of studies and third party studies as well, that indicate that our safe stove with with dura track, with passive stove, can gain up to up to two 3% additional energy from from that, that methodology, and that equates to, oftentimes, two three cents a watt for over the NPV lifetime of this, of the solar facility
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you lost me there for a sec. Safe stow improves the output of the array,
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yes, yes, because only the rows that need to move. Ah, okay, got it with active stow protocols, because they want to protect most of the rows. And there are different protocols that are out there, and different different companies have different algorithms and different ways to stow, but on average, many more of those rows move to protect them in a high wind condition.
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And for a ray only, the rows that need to move move because the wind is pushing them. So that reduces the number of rows that are sort of in a non ideal position, and then stop tracking the sun, which in a very windy condition. We're talking, you know, 120 miles an hour, 50 meters a second, plus. Type of wind conditions can equate to, you know, two or 3% higher energy production over the lifetime of that system, and that is of significant benefit to our customers.
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The Clean Power Hour is brought to you by CPS America, maker of North America's number one three phase string inverter with over eight gigawatts shipped in the US. The CPS product lineup includes string inverters ranging from 25 kW to 350 kW, their flagship inverter, the CPS 350 KW is designed to work with solar plants ranging from two megawatts to two gigawatts. CPS is the world's most bankable inverter brand, and is America's number one choice for solar plants now offering solutions for commercial utility ESS and balance of system requirements go to chintpowersystems.com or call 855-584-7168, to find out more. Yeah, I think of two things, and I'm no, I'm no expert at this. But you know, there's just the you've got a you've got a row of panels sitting like this, potentially, and wind coming across here, catching the panels and pulling on the panels themselves, or on the whole torque tube. But then there's also this thing called galloping that is a phenomenon in in single axis trackers. Can you talk a little bit about some of the factors that you have to control for
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absolutely so with torsional galloping is when, basically when, when a system is flat, there can become a resonance in the wind, in which case there can be, you know, I think we've all seen those, those old videos of of the bridge in, I think it was Washington state, right, where you had, you know, destruction of that well that can occur with solar systems as well, that are flat, where you get a resonance with the wind and that galloping, which eventually causes that resonance, causes these sort of catastrophic events. Well, that that doesn't happen with with the array tracker. Basically the wind will just push, you know where you had a bridge that was solid in its in its space flat, that wind pushes the pushes the panels to a mechanical stop at 52 degrees, which is a safe position where you where you. Will not get that galloping. And so that is something that we, you know, as part of the design in the passive stow to avoid, avoid that, that low angle galloping.
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And then, what about keeping the modules on the torque tube? What are the considerations there? Because that's also a very serious point of stress, is it not?
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Oh, absolutely.
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And you know, that's where our module mounts and attachments are extremely important. And we go through a significant amount of testing of the design of those module mounts to withstand those wind pressures that can occur because effectively, you have a large sale, if you think about it, and so the module mounting undergoes a significant amount of design and test, both before we launch a new product And with the product in the field as well, to maintain that, that attachment and to limit that, that possibility from happening.
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So artificial intelligence is in the news every day. Now, to what extent are you leveraging artificial intelligence in in this, you know, World of of smart stove technology.
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So artificial intelligence. What the nice thing about the passive sto is that it is, as the name suggests, it's passive. So we don't, you know, the system doesn't need to be smart in order for it to work. The wind just has to push it. So that's, you know, in that particular instance, at at array in general, we are using artificial intelligence and thinking through both from a from a business process perspective, also in our engineering department as well, we've instituted, you know, several pilot programs in artificial intelligence in working through our our engineering service requests, you know, as we have, as you had mentioned, you know, 80 gigawatts of solar tracker installed across the across the world. So our customers come up with a number of engineering service requests, a number of questions. And so we're using artificial intelligence to help us in processing those, those requests to gain to gain efficiency. We're also thinking of using artificial intelligence and other aspects of our of our design and engineering processes as well.
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Cool. So just a couple other things I think we should touch on, and I'll let you take I'll let you take your pick. I'm a huge fan of automation in construction and array has made an investment in a company called swap robotics, which entered the space with a robotic mower. And check out episode 229, from last August, with Tim Lichty, the founder and CEO of swap. So that's one is automation, and then two is domestic content. So I'll let you pick what is a more important topic for array,
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sure, I'll speak it. I don't think it's more important. I'll just, I think it's sort of more in my in more my wheelhouse, the supply chain, elements with domestic content. I mean that that's critical for for a lot of projects, especially in the United States. And we've done a really good job of of having a fully domestic content supply chain, and have for four years that that's one of our passions, especially in the US and in other areas in which we operate, as having that local content.
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But I will speak more specifically about swap given, given the technology angle that's there, you know, we invested, it was made public, we invested in swap robotics last quarter. And you know, a few things really drew us to to swap as we're thinking about automation as a way to reduce insulation costs and therefore reduce the LCOE for our customers. So you know, some of the reasons that we we chose to work with swap, and we're working with others as well in the space, but we really like swap, and chose to invest in them. Is, is their experience in that vegetation management. So their robots have been out in the field and working with array systems and other competitor systems for for years. They don't have any safety incidents.
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So, so safety is extremely important to swap, and I'm sure Tim mentioned that in the podcast. He seems to mention it everywhere he goes, because it is critically important to to swap and to and to array, especially in dealing with automation and robots in the field. You know, the first.
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Incident is going to be a, you know, very, very well publicized. So we want to make sure that safe, there's zero safety incidents. And swap has been phenomenal in doing that.
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And so their experience in working with robots in the field, working with with solar systems that already exist, and then extending that into a installation. And automation of that installation is a is a great fit for array, great fit for our customers. So we're working with them in our at our test facilities, and also working at their facilities, in in Waterloo, Canada, on on installation efficiency and improving installation, especially in the pick and place of solar panels onto the torque tube, or sort of the main structural tube that holds the the solar panels and they're working on that pick and place of solar panels onto that and installation onto that torque tube.
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And when do you anticipate, like deployment at some scale of robotic picking and placing of solar panels we're
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working on with some customers at this point, some alpha sites. We hope to have that operational in the second half, last quarter of the year. So working on Alpha sites, and once the Alpha sites get proven, then commercialization can occur from there. But looking at alpha sites probably in the second half or in q4 this year?
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Cool? Well, I look forward to seeing that come to life, and would love to talk more about that on a future episode. What else should our listeners know? We've got a few minutes left. Aaron, there's, you know, lots of stuff. We could talk about supply chain, durability, LCOE, but what else should our listeners know about array technologies that they may not know
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sure one of we did touch a little bit on on severe weather, so maybe I'll hit just a minute or two on one of the new products that we're launching, which is our 77 degree hail still tracker, because hail is is one of those problems becoming more and more frequent, especially as solar system solar sites become more prevalent in The areas, especially in Texas, and sort of the swath up north from that.
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And, you know, damage to to solar utility scale solar systems on by hail is very visible and sort of known in the, you know, in the general, general news media as well. And so we're developing a product, and have are releasing a product that stows the solar panels at 77 degrees, which is, you know, fairly close to vertical, to protect the panels from damage from from severe hail. And we've, we've developed that, that product and in the in a way that that we hope will limit some of those, you know, those those damaging storms that really can be catastrophic to to to systems in the field, and that, that's an area we spend a lot of time working on. I know you've had a podcast, I think, previously, with John from VDE about that, and that's, that's something that we're, we're, we're working on hard, and we really want to to push into, into those areas.
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Yeah, for sure, Hale has become a no pun intended major for sim solar industry. You know, just with some, with some big project failures, and you know, there's every indication that hail storms are going to increase in size and frequency. So when you say 77 though, I just want to make sure I understand this. Is that, like, if there's a front coming from from my left? Is it 77 facing the front or putting the back of the array to that storm? So to speak? Ideally,
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we'd be to the back, okay, at 77 degrees into the storm, if that's what happened. 77 degrees the reason we chose 77 for a couple of reasons. One, is sort of a physical limitation of our of our system, but then two, at that degree, at that angle view, it's more of a glancing blow, even into the into the direction of the storm. So we, we have a hierarchy of decision making when it comes to hail. So, you know, the first order is, did the system stow? Right? So, if it stowed that, that sort of that that helped solve, you know, 90% of the issues did it stow into the storm, into the direction of the storm, or away from the direction of the storm, if you're away from the direction of the storm, that solves pretty much, almost most of the issues, issues at all. I mean, herd animals figured this out generations ago. If the storm is coming, you put your back to the wind, and that's a safer position to be in. And the third order is the angle at which you stow. So we think that we have, you know, from the first two protocols, we have a very, very solid foundation. The third having a higher angle is something that we're releasing very shortly, and that is ideally away from the direction of the storm. But even if it is in the direction of the storm at 77 degrees, the glow is glancing, especially with the wind and most panels can withstand, at least from a theoretical perspective, you know, even a four inch size hail ball at that at that angle. Wow.
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Yeah. Check out Episode 238, with John previtali from VD Americas. That was from October last year where we talk a lot about hail and solar. I want to thank Aaron for coming on the show today. Aaron gablenick With array technologies, check out all of our content at cleanpowerhour.com Please give us a rating and a review. Reach out to me on LinkedIn and follow us on YouTube. Aaron, how can our listeners find you?
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Well on our website, arraytechinc.com, I am, I am there. You can always reach out to me. I'm I'm always available. My contact information is there and happy to work with with any of our anyone who's interested, and also our our customers. We're very customer centric, working with our customers on all the things that I mentioned, you know, previously, especially, you know, working with alpha sites, and working on our hail products, etc, and our new generation of module mounts as well. So happy to talk to customers, if I haven't already, and with with others as well.
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Awesome. Well, I want to thank Aaron Gable, Nick CTO, and Chief Strategy Officer for array technologies, for coming on the show. I'm Tim Montague. Let's grow solar and storage. Take care. The Clean Power Hour is brought to you by CPS America, maker of North America's number one three phase string inverter with over eight gigawatts shipped in the US. The CPS product lineup includes string inverters ranging from 25 kW to 350 kW. Their flagship inverter, the CPS 350 KW is designed to work with solar plants ranging from two megawatts to two gigawatts. CPS is the world's most bankable inverter brand and is America's number one choice for solar plants, now offering solutions for commercial utility ESS and balance of system requirements go to chintpowersystems.com or call 855-584-7168, to find out more. You.