A Silent Revolution in Utility Solar - Central to String Inverters with Anton Patton, CPS America | EP 158

Anton Patton: 0:38

With a string inverter, you know, you've got that conversion, you've got all of that functionality, safety functions, you know, protections, that monitoring of the DC, the AC, other things like temperature harmonics, you know, at this more granular level, so for every day 250 or 275 kilowatts of the system, you've got all of this mark inverter technology that's there that can be used to, you know, help trip off the system. If there's an issue. Make sure it's, you know, safe and reliable.

intro: 1:14

Are you speeding the energy transition? Here at the Clean Power Hour, our hosts, Tim Montague and John Weaver bring you the best in solar batteries and clean technologies every week, want to go deeper into decarbonisation? We do too. We're here to help you understand and command the commercial, residential and utility, solar, wind and storage industries. So let's get to it. Together, we can speed the energy transition.

Tim Montague: 1:43

There's a silent revolution happening in the utility solar industry and that is the transition from central to string inverters. My guest today is Anton Patton. He is the director of product management and applications engineering at cin power systems. Welcome to the show, Anton.

Anton Patton: 2:01

Alright, Tim, great to be here. Thanks for having me.

Tim Montague: 2:04

Looking forward to doing a deep dive on what's going on in string inverter evolution for utility, CNI, and other markets. The Clean Power Hour is brought to you by Denowatts. If you're a solar PV asset manager or performance engineer, you need better data and better business intelligence. With Denowatts, digital twin benchmarking technology you get more accurate, efficient, and faster performance measurement results. The fourth generation Deno recently completed a technical review by DNV you can download the report at denowatts.com, that's D E N O W A T T S.com. Now back to the show. Give our listeners a little background on yourself. Anton, how long have you been in the solar industry? And how did you come to cient?

Anton Patton: 2:54

Sure, yeah, I have been in the solar industry for about 10 years now. I got my background in engineering, have always, you know, wanted to be involved with sustainability, figure out ways we could move towards sustainability. And solar and renewables really was a great fit between engineering and sustainability. So it was definitely something I have enjoyed the last 10 years. I started on more of the design engineering side. So I've worked with project developers and EPCs working on the system designs for commercial and industrial systems. And as well as being out in the field, kind of working with the equipment. When I came to CPS about five years ago, I really enjoyed, you know, working on the project designs, figuring out how to put everything together, and really put a great design together. But what I liked about CPS and being on the product side was really being able to find ways to advance the technology. So seeing what new innovation could be done, what new products and features we could work on and bring to the market to best need the changing needs of solar PV systems and the different technology that's out there. You know, you've

Tim Montague: 4:24

been with chin for over five years now. So you've seen quite a bit of product evolution in that time. And I'm curious, you know, just at a high level, what stands out for you from back to 2018 to the present here in 2023. What is different about the string inverter industry?

Anton Patton: 4:48

Yeah, it's really been been exciting to see kind of the evolution of our products of the string inverter industry in general, I'd say kind of high level, one of the biggest changes. You know, when I started five years ago, we had our 50 and 60 kilowatt inverter, and we just launched our 101 25 kilowatt and now we're up to 275 to 50 to 75 kilowatts for a single string inverter. So, and, and I've seen that with the whole industry kind of having that higher power and power density in a string inverter has enabled that type of technology and architecture to be used on larger and larger projects. You look at string and central inverters 10 years ago when I got into the industry, I mean you you would See 50 kilowatt projects using a central inverter, whereas now you know, that's that's maybe on the lower end of a commercial string inverter. So I would say that's, that's probably the biggest kind of high level evolution with with string technology that I've seen with CPS, there's also been a lot of different, you know, changes in the industry, whether it's rapid shutdown, I triple E standards, a lot of evolution within the industry that we've kept up with and stayed ahead of,

Tim Montague: 6:10

yeah, the only constant in solar or any other technology industry really is change. And so you have to, you have to be ready, willing and able to learn and grow. So let's talk about this phenomenon, central to string. I've read that, you know, in some markets around the world 90%, of utility scale solar is being constructed using string inverters. Now, here in the US, we may be a little slower to adopt some of those trends. But this trend is real. And, you know, some of the obvious things that driving that are that string inverters are smaller, lighter, easier to get around, whether that's for installation or replacement, or servicing. But when you think about central to string, what are the factors driving that adoption here in North America?

Anton Patton: 7:19

Yeah, I mean, some of the things you mentioned, I think, obviously, the sort of benefits on the operation side, as you're looking at the systems that are going to be out in the field for, you know, 20 plus years, you know, it's really not just the initial, the initial capex of the project that a lot of developers are looking at, you know, a lot of the benefits of lower risk of downtime, if an inverter goes down, you know, with a central, you've got maybe five or six megawatts in a single inverter, whereas if one string inverter goes down, it's a very small part of the system. And like you mentioned, it is a lot easier to troubleshoot, replace, if needed. You know, there aren't a lot of spare parts, I see central inverters as kind of bigger, sort of more custom pieces of equipment where it has specific parts that are needed for repair or replacement. A lot of the times you have to have the manufacturer's technicians go out and do the repairs. So I think that that's a big benefit of if there is an issue out in the field, you know, it can be quickly and a lot more easily addressed. There's also other benefits, like data granularity, you know, our 250 to 75 kilowatt inverter has 12 MP BTS, there's a lot more data there that can be monitored to ensure your your system is operating at its its peak performance. And if there is any issue in the field that can be easily found using that data. One other benefit that our customers have valued is the design flexibility of string versus Central has a lot of systems today, even large utility scale systems, or a lot of the times not perfect rectangles, you've got different terrain you got to work with or work around. So having that flexibility of having smaller building blocks, or at least, you know, being able to have building blocks that are more spread apart, has has really helped that transition. You know, a lot of EPCs and developers are starting to see those those benefits.

Tim Montague: 9:36

So, when you think about a 100 megawatt power plant, done traditionally with five megawatt inverters, you have a face value 20 inverters switching over to string inverters, your if you know if I did the math on 275 kW inverter, your your almost 20 axing the number of inverters in the project, you've got over 360 inverters in a in 100 megawatt plant if you're using string inverters. Now, the string inverters are getting bigger. And we're going to talk about what our listeners can look forward to add our E plus when they visit your booth. We're in the run up to our a plus in Vegas here in 2023. That's going to be September 11 to 14th. So please join us. I will have a booth tent of course we'll have a big booth and 30,000 energy professionals come together annually at RT plus if you haven't been please check it out. It's a wonderful event and easy to get to now in Vegas. By had that part count is that I referred to, you know, almost 20 axing the number of inverters that might seem counterintuitive that if you're, you know, installing power electronics, in a large, you know, we're talking a 500 acre project. So let's, let's go a little deeper into what developers and IPPs and asset owners, what are the advantages that are driving them? You know, you mentioned uptime, and I imagine that is, that is something that that is, you know, front and centre here. And when, when a five megawatt inverter goes down, that's a lot of juice. And that's a lot of revenue, potentially lost from a power plant. So maybe that alone is, is the no brainer. flip of the switch. But if I'm an IPP and I'm, and I'm doing this calculus, okay, five megawatt inverters. Now, that's a big machine, it has to be craned onto the site or onto the pad. Right? No human or no group of humans is going to carry that machine, it's a big, it's a, it's the size of a small bus, versus a 275, kW worth even 350. Right, you do have a 350 coming out, which is the size of a dining room table, perhaps a small dining room table, and, and could be carried by a few men. So what I mean, you're interfacing with dozens and dozens of of these customers of yours on a regular basis. I'm just curious, what you're hearing from them, and and what is the value proposition that you're making to them?

Anton Patton: 12:30

Yeah, I mean, it's definitely a different architecture, string versus central for these large plants. And, you know, we've really looked at having blocks of system where you could basically just repeat it, you know, to 100 megawatts plus, and, you know, our applications engineering team, you know, we work closely with our customers, to support them as they're designing their systems going through the engineering analysis. And, you know, with with more inverters, you'll have more, I guess, on the DC side, whereas you might have combiner boxes, or some kind of DC combining with a central inverter. Instead, you've got the string inverter, they're both combining that DC. And then, you know, having that that AC balancing system, in addition to offering the the inverters we're also offering a lot of the balanced system equipment, fuse disconnects, we've got an 800 volt breaker box product that we'll be showcasing it already plus, and even transformer skids really designed to be installed together and operate together as a as a full building block, like a central inverter is just in a different type of architecture. And yes, I mean, it's, it's more inverters, but they are, like you said, they're, they're smaller, a lot easier to repair, replace, and that downtime. You know, if an IPP or developers really looking at a project, it's really like, if you have say, five or six megawatts down for multiple weeks, I mean, that's a lot of revenue loss, that's a lot of system production. So it's that type of thinking, and that kind of value proposition of luck, you're not going to have that kind of risk. If a string inverter goes down, or even a few of them, we have multiple 100 megawatts of of these in stock and available to quickly ship out if needed. Or you could have some on site that could be right there just to swap out and get the system back up and running.

Tim Montague: 14:38

You mentioned skids. And there's two approaches with string inverters. Right. You either distribute them throughout the array, you know, like at the end of rows, or you put them on skids and cluster them. And it's kind of apples and oranges. There's, in my experience, there's no clear winner. It's kind of a personal preference. But it does bring up the possibility of doing off site pre construction. Is that something that developers are pursuing? Because you know, you're putting close to you know, when you think about replacing a five megawatt inverter with string inverters, you're talking close to 20 inverters Can you can you make a five megawatt block on a skid that then it's just brought onto the you know, shipped and brought onto the site that way?

Anton Patton: 15:31

Yeah, I mean, we've we've definitely even ourselves looked at that that type of integration, but I know there are you integrators out there that are working on that type of solution with the string inverters clustering them together, even some of that prefabrication of having it all shipped together as a unit at CPS, you know, we have, you know, tried to make our solutions as flexible as possible. We know, you know, depending on the different customers, the different sites or applications, or even different preferences, I mean, there could be, you know, trade offs of either of either type of design. So we try and keep our products flexible to be used in different ways, versus just having, you know, this is the only configuration you can use this is how the product needs to be connected, but allowing, you know, that type of flexible design and engineering with our customers,

Tim Montague: 16:28

when you're advising design engineers, you know, your customers, on different architectures, different approaches. What is it? What is that dialogue? Like? Is this a? Is this somewhat of a shock to the solar industry? Or is this a no brainer? And people are, you know, like kids in a candy store, buying up string inverters instead of central inverters. What is that? What is the adoption that you're experiencing?

Anton Patton: 17:05

Yeah, so, I mean, I'd say today, you know, the utility scale projects are still, you know, majority of them are using central inverters. And central inverters are what have been used in utility for years and years. It's definitely, I mean, we're seeing that shift to string for a lot of these large scale projects. But a lot of it has been, I think, education of the industry of, you know, yes, this may be the design that have been used that's been used for years and years. But here's this other architecture, and here are the advantages, you know, not just looking at, okay, it's more inverters. It's a slightly higher capex, but there's all these other features and benefits of using string. And, you know, with the string technology, having higher and higher power products coming to the market, not just CPS, but, you know, we've got our 252 7275 kW, we've got our 350 coming out, you know, we're continually continuing to sort of innovate and see how we can best optimise our string technology to make it the best fit for utility scale. So yeah, I mean, I think as we are working with the designers, and engineers, a lot of it is sort of one just making sure they understand, you know, the string inverter architecture, how everything is connected, the different Balance of System, equipment options that are available on the market, either through us, or what we've seen, used for projects, and then a lot of education on the benefits that they can then take to either the developer or the site owner or off taker, you know, so that they could understand that and see, make the decision of Oh, yeah, do we do a look at these benefits, you know, looking long term for this project versus just the initial capex?

Tim Montague: 19:04

In your experience, when you think about the, the guts of a cient 275 kW inverter, versus the guts of a five megawatt central inverter? You mentioned, for example, data granularity, paint a picture for us? What is the difference between these two machines, they're both the heart of the solar array, they're both doing that heavy lifting, converting the DC, from the solar panels to the AC for the grid, or whatever the application is. And, but I get the sense that there's, there's some nuances here that our listeners may not be aware of.

Anton Patton: 19:48

Yeah, I mean, yes, it's the same, I guess, inverter technology, and that they will convert DC power to AC. But with a string inverter, you know, you've got that conversion, you've got all of that functionality, safety functions, you know, protections, that monitoring of the DC the AC, other things like temperature, harmonics, you know, at this more granular level, so for every, say 250 or 275 kilowatts of the system, you've got all of this Martin inverter technology that's there that can be used to, you know, help trip off the system. If there's an issue. You make sure it's, you know, safe and reliable. Whereas, you know, you've got the central inverter that's got the same things, but it's it in one location, you've got all this large DC coming to one. And that's where it where it happens. And that's where the heart is, versus having it more spread out and having more data and more granularity to be able to really pinpoint, you know, is there an issue and if there is part of the system that needs to be serviced or maintained, you can shut off a small part of it, versus if it's a central inverter, having to shut down four or five megawatts of it to service that one part of that system.

Tim Montague: 21:10

The Clean Power Hour is brought to you by CPS America. The maker of North America's number one three phase string inverter with over six gigawatts shipped in the US. The CPS America product lineup includes three phase string inverters ranging from 25 to 275 kW, their flagship inverter, the CPS 250 to 75 is designed to work with solar plants ranging from two megawatts to two gigawatts, the 250 to 75. pairs well, with CPS America's exceptional data communication controls and energy storage solutions, go to chintpowersystems.com. To find out more. What else should our listeners know about this particular topic? Central to string, we're going to talk about some other aspects of your product line and what's going on at r plus. But what else should our listeners know about the considerations for central central to string?

Anton Patton: 22:05

Yeah, I think as designers, or engineers are working on projects, looking at Central versus string, a lot of the big differences in the architecture is the balanced system. So with a central, you'll have a lot of DC combining equipment needed, where as since the string inverter, does that DC combining, it's instead looking at the AC balanced system equipment. So that's something our, our team can help with, we have products that we offer on the 800 volt balanced system equipment, which are 250 to 75 kilowatt and 350 Kw both have an 800 volt AC output. And that's allowed our higher power densities. But, you know, obviously, it's been a transition from 600 volt to 800 volt. And we've we've brought products and solutions to the market to help with that transition with that implementation. So a lot of the products like our our 800, volt combiners, fuse disconnects, things to consider as you're looking at your system design, using string technology versus central

Tim Montague: 23:18

very well. So let's step back again and paint our listeners a picture of what is going on at CPS and what can our listeners look forward to seeing and putting their hands on at RV plus?

Anton Patton: 23:35

Yeah, I mean, we've got a lot of new products that we're launching, and we'll be showcasing at our A plus, in Las Vegas, we have new eight undervolt balancing system, equipment that we are launching, like I mentioned, we have a new fuse disconnect, we've got our 800 volt breaker box, which we've seen a need in the industry of, of having this type of 800 volt equipment to to better adopt these high power string inverters for large projects. We'll also be showing a lot of our energy storage solutions that we're bringing to the market as well for both utility scale systems and CNI. So, that's another area that CPS that we're doing a lot of product development and product launch launches in is the energy storage space. So a lot of exciting new products that that we'll be showcasing and if anybody is there, definitely come by and check them out at the booth.

Tim Montague: 24:42

What is the status of your storage product products? And what markets are you targeting initially?

Anton Patton: 24:52

Yeah, so we have our CNI energy storage system. So CNI. We've been a market leader in that market segment for for several years. And you know, a lot of our customers are in that space. And we're bringing a turnkey 125 kW or 250, kW to our systems to to the US so it'll be turnkey with the the inverter, the batteries, the EMS, BMS all in one system that can be installed at a commercial or industrial project and then the utility scale. So we are going to the UL certifications now Going through the ul 9540 system certification of the batteries with the inverters. And so that's, you know, we'll likely have those coming to the market early next year, since we're going through the UL certification now, but the CNI ESS, we have our first system coming to our Texas facility now, I think it'll be there in a couple of weeks. So that that system, we have our first batch coming. So we're we're planning to start deploying that and launching that product very soon here. So it's a very exciting time at CPS, I'm definitely excited about a lot of the products we have coming, especially on energy storage, obviously, with with solar PV energy storage is a big, big topic of conversation and kind of that energy transition of adding storage to solar PV projects,

Tim Montague: 26:35

especially in markets like California, with NAMM 3.0, which, you know, really, solar only pencils very nicely when you combine it with storage, in my opinion. So there are strong incentives for storage. But there's quite a few markets around the US Massachusetts, New York, Illinois, that have carve outs for storage as well we have a 250 per kWh $250 per kWh incentive in Illinois now. So a battery added to a solar array on a CNI system is cash positive in you know, a year or two, certainly no more than two years now, which is which is crazy, considering the value stack that you get from storage. But tell us a little more though about you know, the CNI market? And what are what are the tough questions and problems that your customers are facing in the CNI market?

Anton Patton: 27:40

Yeah, I mean, for, for energy storage, I'd say, you know, bringing, bringing energy storage solutions to the market, I think the one of the one of the challenges has been the battery technology supply chain. So, you know, getting supply of these batteries. I think, in general in the industry has been tough the past few years, but we're definitely seeing that change recently on, you know, a lot of batteries being available in the market, for not only utility scale, but also CNI, and residential applications as well. So I think that has been, that has been one of the challenges that has come up. It's also sort of understanding energy storage operation. And controls, since it is different than solar, I mean, solar, you have production when, you know, the sun's out, and it's on on the modules. But with energy storage, you've got to understand the utility rates of when there is peak hours versus off peak, you know, when to charge and discharge to maximise that, those economic incentives, you know, charging, when PV is producing, there's a lot of different things to consider and complexity with energy storage, that's different than than just PV. So that's a lot of what what our team, you know, looks at and provides technical support for our customers as they look at our, our battery storage solutions.

Tim Montague: 29:23

Can you speak to attachment rates? What are you seeing? I mean, I would venture that attachment rates are highest in Hawaii, because they don't allow grid injection of solar. But obviously, it's a small market, small but mature market, then we have California with them three. And then, you know, markets like Massachusetts, which require storage on anything above 500 Kw in solar, but what what are you seeing?

Anton Patton: 30:01

I mean, it's definitely it's definitely growing. We've seen a lot of customers and systems, attaching energy storage, or at least, you know, wanting to with their designs. So, I mean, we're definitely seeing, you know, a significant amount of our customers. And I know, I've, I've seen some of the market data that, you know, projecting over the next few years. You know, a lot of solar PV systems will have energy storage attached to it. So, yeah, I mean, it's It's definitely growing, I think we're kind of seeing, seeing more and more of it. Now that we have additional solutions and products coming to the market, we did our first generation energy storage systems that we've deployed for, for the CNI market. And with our next generation, our new products, we're definitely already getting a lot of, you know, our customers that we've typically just worked with, on the the PVS further side, really being interested in wanting to also attach energy storage, especially like you mentioned in some of these markets, where Evie only is getting harder and harder to pencil economically without some sort of energy storage attachment as well.

Tim Montague: 31:27

One of the greatest limiting factors in the energy transition is human resources, manpower. And, you know, it is it's a, it's a war for talent out there. What are what are the deltas that you think cient offers its employees? And for those energy professionals listening to this, why should they consider checking out your jobs page.

Anton Patton: 31:58

In the five years that I've been with CPS, we have grown a lot. I think we've, we've doubled the team since I've been here over the last five years. And we have a lot of different openings on our team. Currently, I on the products and applications engineering side have have several open roles. And working with CPS, I'd say you really have the opportunity to make an impact on the solar PV and energy storage industry. I mean, we've shipped over six gigawatts, we're on track to hit over seven, maybe even eight gigawatts of inverters for the US market. So that's, you know, a big, big part of the energy transition of bringing solar to the US. And that's that's the US alone, I mean, we have our, our parent companies that, you know, have global market presence, but here on the CPS America team, we're definitely being the inverter supplier. And on the engineering team, you're definitely connected to a lot of the industry, you know, whether it's the designers, the engineers, you know, we we work with utilities, you know, making sure we're staying up to date with all the market trends and requirements. A lot of the different industry groups, and, you know, a lot of the products that we work on and innovate, you know, there's a lot of opportunity with, with the inverters themselves. I mean, you mentioned that they're the heart of the system, there's so many different functions and features within just the inverter that, you know, we can help improve and advance the technology for that, it's really exciting to be a part of that and work with our r&d team, our engineering team to to really bring the best products to the market and understand those market needs and bring solutions for that. Yeah. And I'd say at CPS, we definitely are a collaborative, we have a collaborative culture of, you know, everyone on the team really making an impact in what we do, and the products and customer experience that we offer, you know, on all the different teams, all the different departments, you know, we're, we're touching these PV systems in different ways, the customers, and all of that feedback of really seeing what our customers are doing in the field, what the pain points are. And what we can do on the product side, is something I really like about, you know, taking that feedback, taking that experience, and then seeing what we can do as a solution.

Tim Montague: 34:41

Chins has offices in California, Texas and New Jersey. I think you're in the California Office. Tell us a little bit about the work environment. And are you mostly office based on your team or hybrid? Yeah, so

Anton Patton: 34:55

I am in our Pleasanton, California Office, and we have a hybrid, I guess, policy now. And you know, since since COVID, we've definitely adjusted but we, we enjoy coming into the office together to have that type of collaboration. You know, some of us are, are working remote and you know, we're able to collaborate over zoom and, and communicate, but there's definitely a lot of good collaboration that we do in the office together that is sometimes hard to do when you're you're only on Zoom or only communicating virtually. So yeah, It's allowed us, you know, in in Pleasanton at least we we have different departments we've got our engineering, we've got our customer operations and sales that, you know, we see different different parts of a project different customer experiences, whether they're ordering, they're designing, they're installing. So really kind of taking all of that putting our heads together different ideas of how we can improve, has really led to our success and customers really like working with us, I think they can feel that type of collaborative culture, and, you know, having kind of a consistent, reliable message to our customers.

Tim Montague: 36:20

Excellent. Well, in our last few minutes together, Anton, what else should our listeners know about your work about what's going on at cient? And what's going on in the solar industry?

Anton Patton: 36:33

So with my work, I'd say, if there are any questions, if you're looking at a system design, you know, looking at string technology for large, large systems, or looking at any of our products, definitely reach out. You know, we were here to provide that type of support, whether you've got a question about, you know, the product certifications, how to design how to instal, you know, we're here to help that, help with that, and help you be successful with your projects. And, you know, we're always listening to the feedback, you know, whether, you know, there's something we're not offering yet, something we can do better. So always welcoming that type of feedback, especially on the product side. And yeah, we've got a lot of new new products coming to the market, new launches. So if you are at Ra plus in Las Vegas, where booth 2521. So definitely, if you're there, come check out our products, you can you can see them live in person, and I feel like that's, that's usually the best way to really understand a product when you can, you can see it.

Tim Montague: 37:46

The Clean Power Hour is brought to you by Denowatts. If you're a solar PV asset manager or performance engineer, you need better data and better business intelligence. With Denowatts digital twin benchmarking technology, you get more accurate, efficient, and faster performance measurement results. The fourth generation Deno recently completed a technical review by DNV. You can download the report at Denawatts.com. That's D E N O W A T T S.com. Now back to the show. Excellent. Well check out chintpowersystems.com. That's where you can find all the product information. And how can our listeners connect with you personally, Anton?

Anton Patton: 38:29

Yeah, we have on our website, we have our contact information, you can call our hotline, you can reach out to them our team will will be there to answer. And if you aren't already, please come by. I'll have my cards there available for you. And we can get in touch.

Tim Montague: 38:47

Excellent. Check out all of our content at Cleanhowerhour.com. Give us a rating and review on Apple and Spotify. That is the best way you can support the show. And by all means, tell a friend about the show. We are always looking for more listeners to educate and inspire into the energy transition. And we have a very robust YouTube channel, check out our YouTube channel and subscribe for the twice weekly shows that we're dropping. I want to thank Anton Patton with chin power systems for coming on the show today. Look forward to seeing you in a couple of weeks in Las Vegas, Nevada. I'm Tim Montague, let's grow solar and storage. Hey, listeners. This is Tim, I want to give a shout out to all of you. I do this for you twice a week. Thank you for being here. Thank you for giving us your time. I really appreciate you and what you're all about. You are part and parcel of the energy transition whether you're an energy professional today, or an aspiring energy professional. So thank you. I want to let you know that the Clean Power Hour has launched a listener survey. And it would mean so much to me. If you would go to clean power hour.com click on the About Us link right there on the main navigation that takes you to the about page and you'll see a big graphic listener survey just click on that graphic and it takes just a couple of minutes. If you fill out the survey, I will send you a lovely baseball cap with our logo on it. The other thing I want our listeners to know is that this podcast is made possible by corporate sponsors. We have two wonderful sponsors today, chin power systems, the leading three phase string inverter manufacturer in North America and Dena watts, a performance monitoring platform for utility scale solar. So check out CPS America, and Denowatts. But we are very actively looking for additional support to make this show work. And you see here our media kit. With all the sponsor benefits and statistics about the show, you know, we're dropping two episodes a week. We have now over 320,000 downloads on YouTube. And we're getting about 45,000 downloads per month. So this is a great way to bring your brand to our listeners and our listeners are decision makers in clean energy. This includes projects executives, engineers, finance, project management, and many other professionals who are making decisions about and developing designing, installing and making possible clean energy project. So check out cleanpowerhour.com both our listener survey on the about us and our media kit and become a sponsor today. Thank you so much. Let's go solar and storage