Innovating Solar and Storage: CPS America's Brian Baxter on the Rise of String Inverters | EP200

See an evolution of the industry of people that want to get the most bang for their buck the most kilowatt hour generation out of the system is possible. You want to have better uptime, better performance, really better data across the whole site. So really, that more recently, I think is driven the need for string inverters. Now we're really seeing that on larger and larger projects as we move into this year. Next, it's going to be very exciting.

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Today on the Clean Power Hour, putting the customer first in solar technology. My guest today is Brian Baxter. He is the Director of Sales East for CPS America. Welcome to the show, Brian.

Thanks. Thanks for having me, Tim.

We're doing a whole series with CPS this year. And you're a well known manufacturer of three phase string inverters in the CNI space, you've now expanded your offering. So you're doing 275Kw and 350 Kw string inverters for the utility market as well. You have a long history in renewable energy. So give our listeners a little background on yourself, Brian and how you came to CPS?

Yeah, basically, I've been in the solar industry for about 15 years now. But I started with General Electric and their solar division. Actually, at the time, they were making solar modules in Delaware. And so I joined that team as an application engineer. So I've spent, you know, several years with that team kind of grew from Application Engineer up through to engineering manager, and we started doing, you know, different projects, development of commercial and CNI type projects. And also had some inverter products along the way, as well as as Caterpillar modules. So there's kind of a large variety of, of different aspects that I was able to see and really kind of learn from throughout that process. And then, after, after 11 years with with GE, I made the transition from engineering into sales with 10 power systems. That was on the on the buy side for a while and then flip to the sales side. So it's been a really interesting transition for me.

What do you mean by the buy side?

We were buying components, right? We were buying racking modules and inverters for full system integration, mainly in the commercial space. at GE ECI.

Yes. Okay. Got it. So you're with a development group?

Yes, they started out as product manufacturing, but then eventually got more into the the development side. So actually away from the products. Does that group still exist? So interestingly, that group was in GE for a long period of time, but then actually was spun out into what is now DSD. Still based here in Schenectady, New York. Oh, sure. But yeah, so now that that team has actually grown quite large and has been really successful in the CNI market, community solar?

Haven't they really created a niche within carport as well?

Yes, absolutely. Yeah, there's a, there's a lot of design work that we did together. Before that before I left, and you know, a lot of testing and design on carports. And that that team has really done a phenomenal job.

Cool. Yeah, it's fascinating. I call it the braided stream. But how people in companies meander and morph and get absorbed, they get bought, right? Mergers and acquisitions. And then they get spun out. And it's just a constant flow. But it must have been some adjustment coming from GE to go to CPS, which at the time, four year for some years ago was quite small.

Yeah, yeah. No, it was a little bit different for me. I mean, it's coming from, from engineering projects into the sales side, which is actually, you know, it's more of a support role for customers. So, so making that transition was was interesting. It took a little time to really get my feet underneath me, but really, I just bring our service culture to our customers and try to help them out and bring that the knowledge that I have from you know, all of the years of design and equipment, selection in service to help them to design their projects more effectively.

There's a saying in sales, the customer is always right. You Even if the customer is not right, the customer is right. And that that's a tough pill to swallow sometimes, right? There's, there's a spectrum of, of types of customers and you know, it's kind of good, bad or ugly. And so I'm curious, though, what was that like going from engineering to sales and kind of learning to, to work through all these married relationships?

Yeah, good question. I mean, there's definitely a lot of different scenarios that you find yourself in. Some customers really know what they're doing, and really are adamant about the specific way that they want to do a project and sort of just work with them and try to meet them where they are, and get them everything that they need. On the other side, there's other customers that really may be inexperienced, and you know, those customers are actually a lot of fun to work with as well, because you can kind of educate them and help them see value that maybe they didn't recognize. So that's really, you know, one of the fundamental things that I really tried to do most is try to help the customer out and make sure that they're using products the right way and, and sort of get them off the learning curve as as quickly as possible.

So let's, let's give our listeners a Cliff's Notes version of how things have changed in the last four years. Because I think that it's a lot and and, of course, many of our listeners have been in the industry for more than four years, but many of them have not. So from your perspective, though, how have the products How has the market, we've seen the explosion of community solar, for example. It was in a few isolated markets. And now it's starting to blanket large swaths of the country including now California, of course, Illinois, New York, Massachusetts, New Jersey, Maine, has a small market, but a small but lucrative market, apparently. But in from your perspective, how are things changed?

Yeah, I mean, I guess, if you take, like the ground mount, for example, that kind of designed to start the we'd had the 5060 kilowatt platform out for many years and sort of customers were really starting to design around, you know, 1000 volts strings with the 50s and 60s, as an example, and we had a doubling when we went to the 101 125 kW. So that alone was was really a big leap for customers, longer strings, less wires, you know, obviously, less components in the system as an overall factor. And so that was one doubling. And now we've got the 252 75. So another, another doubling, if you will, on the inverter size. So the power density continues to improve, which is amazing. And I think, you know, we'll, we'll continue to see that. But then some of the other bounces system around the inverters, we've gotten improvements there as well. So we're really kind of looking at the whole system, and trying to improve the whole process.

It the question begs Brian, and I don't know if you can answer this, but why when, when the string inverter, really started to take hold in CNI and small utility. Why is it kind of a ground up approach? You know, we had these utility inverters? Let's say 125 10, right, some large, large inverters. And then you you kind of had this plethora of very small inverters. And now they're those two ends are growing together, and they're meeting in the middle, right? We're, we're dividing up the megawatt into quarters, for example, with a 250. Right. Sure. But why has that taken the route that it has in your mind?

Yeah, I mean, I think part of it really is the, there's a legacy of design, and some of it is just getting the cheapest individual component. So so that's the starting point is Central's have historically been cheaper than string inverters? So if you're doing a large project, you know, generally, it would have made sense in the past to maybe go for for that type of product. But now, I think you have people that really understand the systems more so you have an evolution of the industry, people that want to get the most bang for their buck the most kilowatt hour generation out of the system as possible. You want to have better uptime, better performance, really better data across the whole site. So really, that more recently, I think, has driven the need for string inverters and now we're really seeing that on larger and larger IT projects as we move into this year. Next, it's going to be very exciting.

So let's, let's go back to it, you're an engineer, and then all of a sudden, you're a salesperson. What do you say to others? Who might consider making that transition? I think an engineering background is, is fantastic. No matter what segment of the industry you work in, you can always be less technical. It's harder to be technical than less technical. And, and of course, when you're when you're customer facing having a technical background, I think is, is fantastic. The question is, do you have the communication, the outgoing personality, etc, needed to be in a sales role, which many engineers would would balk at? They would tend towards being introverts, I think. But what was that like for you?

Yeah, though, it's really been kind of a an interesting transition for me. And it wasn't overnight, you know, these things don't happen, just you know, from from one day to the next. So one of the things that I would recommend, though, is, it's getting out of your comfort zone, it's trying new things. While I was at GE, for example, I did Toastmasters because I was more introverted as as an engineer. And so that was a starting point. And actually, beyond that, I even dabbled on the side for a very short time with with a couple of friends doing a little bit of improv, which was actually just a small group, you know, on weekends kind of thing. But just an amazing way to sort of expand the mind and sort of look at different scenarios and how to interact with people really be ready for, you know, the next thing that comes in front of you. So I think that was really an excellent sort of tool for me that I was using, right before I joined CPS.

I completely resonate with the Toastmasters thing I I got involved with Toastmasters in the late 90s. And that really changed my, my world in many good ways. And for those who are not familiar, it's a it's a volunteer organization dedicated to helping people be better communicators. And you, they have a very rigorous program that you can work through. You can get as involved or uninvolved as you want, you can go to weekly meetings, if you want, I mean that to really practice, of course, any craft, you have to do it regularly. And that's the Toastmasters framework is do lots of small talks practice, in front of an audience that's going to be, you know, friendly to you. And, you know, frankly, it's something that we neglect in our educational system. And in business, I think that no matter what you do, if you can be a better communicator, you're going to be better off, you're going to be more successful at getting things done, and getting your ideas moved forward in the world. So and of course, in in sales and marketing, you know, you're in a position of trying to influence people, and not only communicate the effectiveness and the technical aspects of your product, but ultimately win their trust and, and, and build a long term relationship. So let's talk about, you know, how CPS trains its staff to work with customers. I think CPS is a very unique company, you have great technology. But there's many great technologies in the world. I think that it's the people behind the technology that really differentiate so many technology companies, the people in the culture, and how they interface with their buyers. So what is your take on that? Yeah,

I mean, it's, I guess it was a couple of things that right, so we've got a training of people I mean, that that is something that we definitely take very seriously. We definitely want our team to be very knowledgeable on the product number one, right so there's there are some internal trainings that we have developed from different people in sort of products in application engineering team. We have a new trainer on our team as well. So we have internal training that we can provide to the team on a regular basis. And beyond that, though, it's it's really a lot of, you know, getting, you know, the collaboration that we really look for between team members and sort of sharing knowledge sharing, you know, troubles as well as challenges and how we move forward. Come those three, have a good culture just have meetings where, where we can, we can basically, you know, enlighten other people about how we're doing certain things. So there's a lot of little aspects that go into it. And it's a lot of work, but it is something that we take very seriously.

The Clean Power Hour is brought to you by CPS America, the maker of North America's number one three phase string inverter with over six gigawatts shipped in the US. The CPS America product lineup includes three phase string inverters ranging from 25 to 275, kW, their flagship inverter, the CPS, 250, to 75 is designed to work with solar plants ranging from two megawatts to two gigawatts, the 250 to 75. pairs well, with CPS, America's exceptional data communication controls and energy storage solutions, go to chintpowersystems.com. To find out more. When you think about a success story, in your career, what are the elements of that? You know, in the last couple of years, like, what, what's an example of of a challenging opportunity that you have, you know, figured out so to speak, you've cracked the code and, and build a long lasting relationship with that customer.

Yeah, no, I think sometimes there are product challenges, right, like, no product is perfect. So, you know, whenever there are some of those challenges, it's how do we step up and beat that moment? How do we provide answers to the customer? So there's, there's certainly been some of those scenarios where we've had a challenge. And we've had to overcome that by getting more data, you know, analyzing the situation, pulling into all the resources that we have, we have a great team in Texas, you know, great service engineering folks that, you know, we can analyze some of these problems. And, you know, we take that and then we we basically come back with a solution. Maybe it's maybe it's an upgrade, maybe it's an update, things of that nature. But yeah, you really, you can't avoid those those problems and situations. But we've definitely kept customers for a long period of time by really being open and transparent and trying to work through those issues together.

Yeah, some, some people and some companies try to sweep things under the carpet and pretend that they don't exist. And when there's a real problem, that's not going to serve you well, it's much better to just address it head on, admit that there's a flaw and figure out a solution that's going to work for both parties. But you mentioned Dallas, you know, CPS has offices in three states, you've got a workforce that's distributed across the United States. What is that like? And and, you know, as as a virtual salesperson, you're very familiar with working remotely, that was not new, when the pandemic hit in 2019, or 2020. whenever that was, but how do you build in regular FaceTime? Is it? Is it through the conference circuit that you're on? Or? What what tell us a little bit about how you guys create cohesive city? Among the team?

Yeah, no, one of the things is, you really can't do it all through a Zoom meeting, it just is not as effective clearly, right. So what we do is we do have, there's, there's plenty of the trade shows that we go to. So usually more heavily in the beginning of the year, we have some of the big events, and we will do some training before the event starts. So we get together as a team will will basically have have a training scheduled for a full day generally, before we head in into the event so that we all can get together in person, really kind of talk through questions, and comments and issues, and work through those together. We do that periodically, though. And so you know, might be three months in a row. And maybe as you know, as a sales specific event that will run so that we can get the whole team working together because you have to have people in person, otherwise, you're just gonna lose that level of contact that you get when you're face to face.

Yeah, I totally agree. I spend my life on Zoom. But I look forward to seeing people face to face. And that is mostly on the on the trade show circuit. But and you know, that is a wonderful thing. It's so worth it. And so

the other thing I'm gonna add there as is obviously we do have a big event in in March at our facility in Texas as well our Innovation Day so that that event alone is the entire team together. So it's not just a small group going to a trade show. So that one is probably our most important event of the year. And that is really where we get the entire team and really a whole bunch of great customers and future customers to join us as well for a couple of days.

Yep, that is a great event. So what do you say to people in the industry and people outside of the industry about what makes CPS different and why they should take a closer look, CPS is on a tear, you're, you're a fast growing, you're taking market share, you're expanding into the utility space, a lot of exciting things happening. But from your perspective, what else should people know? Yeah,

I mean, just to start, it's great to be part of a winning team. And how do we get there is really, with the culture with the team that we've got that really is just dedicated to serving the customer, and, you know, bringing great products. So I think one of the things that the people should know is that, that we're going to be around for a long time that we're not going anywhere, we've been, you know, here for over a decade already. And we just see tremendous growth going forward as well. So we're super excited about the next couple of years, new markets, you know, kind of expanding into utility and energy storage as well. So there's, there's really a lot to offer. There's a lot of career paths, there's a lot of different directions that people can go in if they joined CPS.

When you are working with your junior colleagues, what, what are some common things that you notice they could do better? And maybe my audience could do better in terms of learning to serve customers better?

Yeah, I mean, I think for me, at least, it really comes down to that engineering and fundamental solar understanding that that I kind of bring to the table. So we definitely hire from outside of the industry, obviously, the industry is growing rapidly. So it's a necessity to bring on additional people. And, you know, we have a great new hires that are really passionate and excited. And, you know, one of the things is, they may not have the same level of technical background, which is alright, and that's understandable. So I usually just try to take the time, you know, when a question comes up, not just give them the answer, but, you know, kind of walk them through why? And how that answer comes about, and sort of explain that, that to them in that process. And I think if we, if we do that internally, to grow the team to have that capability, when they're responding to our customers, you know, all of our customers should be getting a better response. That's it's a more full and incomplete response with with hopefully added value.

Sometimes we are our own worst enemies, we perhaps don't ask enough questions. My goal is to get my customer to talk 80% of the time, for example. That's a very good rule of thumb when you're trying to figure out what their needs are. You can't give them the answer. You have to let them reveal that. And, I mean, ultimately, the endpoint may be the very similar with many different customers, okay, you're, you're doing a project or a portfolio, but how you get there is going to be different with every customer. And I would argue that that diversity of pathway so to speak, is is a great strength, and people will appreciate you and ultimately like and trust you more as you forge that unique pathway together. Absolutely. So what else should our listeners know? Brian? I, I don't know what I don't know. You know, and, and I'm just curious, like, here you are, you know, you've got more than 10 years of experience in the industry. It's, it's on fire. It's a very exciting time. It's not without its challenges, fast growth is is a challenge to manage. But what else should our listeners know about you and CPS? Yeah, I

mean, basically, you know, for me personally, just, you know, as if you're a customer reaching out that, you know, I'm going to provide the most accurate level of knowledge I can and really try to give you options and sort of give you opportunities to make choices that are going to be the best for your project. So that's, that's one thing I always try to bring to the table for those customers, but then as a company, just to know about CPS is that you know, we're on a great growth track. We have a great team of you know, product development and services that are really bringing new features and new developments we do try to listen to the customer, and bring that feedback back to our team and the development side. So we're going to continue to have awesome new products, and it's going to be a great path forward for all of us.

I wonder if you could say a little more about solar and storage. You know, there's a handful of markets now, with good incentives for storage, including California, Massachusetts, Illinois, of course, Hawaii. But we're just scratching the surface. And yet every solar professional needs to be a solar and storage professional, because storage is so much more three dimensional, the value stack of storage, is many layered. Electrons are great. From the sun, right? Photon to electron very good. But a battery provides a whole stack of services, that just blows solar out of the water. And so we're going to see a lot more storage coming down the pike both in CNI and utility. And of course, it's not just pairing solar and storage together, it's going to be a lot of storage alone. But what else can you tell us about CPS as approach to this phenomenon?

Yeah, you're absolutely right. On the energy storage component. I mean, it's it's going to be more of an aspect for almost every project, I think going forward at some point. But yeah, we've got a commercial offering. And then I think we're most excited about our utility scale energy storage offering, that's going to be the biggest market growth for us. Our approach there as a string inverter company, is that we bring a string PCs to the what has been a central dominated industry, right. So we're a little different there in terms of the product that we have, which is actually an amazing product, our 2.4 megawatt PCs skid has 12 of our string inverters. And that concept allows for better battery performance, cooler temperatures, and, you know, better operation, sort of less downtime, things like that. So I think you're gonna see a shift to string PCs over time. We're super excited about that product. And yeah, that that's gonna be a great, great addition for our team.

Cool. Yeah, you have the skid there at already. Plus, so many of our listeners may have seen that. And you're taking it to some of the shows, I know some of the regional shows around the country. But well, I want to thank you, Brian Baxter for coming on the show. Please check out all of our content at cleanpowerhour.com Give us a rating and a review on Apple and Spotify that helps others find this show. And please tell a friend, we do this for you. We're grateful for your time. We really appreciate you listeners being here. And please check out our YouTube channel, subscribe there and reach out to me on LinkedIn. I love connecting with my listeners or at cleanpowerhour.com. Brian, how can our listeners find you?

You can find me on LinkedIn and also Brian.baxter@chintpower.com. Definitely looking forward to speaking with you again, Tim. I appreciate all you do.

All right, let's grow solar and storage. I'm Tim Montague. Thanks, Brian.

Thank you have a good one.

Hey, listeners. This is Tim, I want to give a shout out to all of you. I do this for you twice a week. Thank you for being here. Thank you for giving us your time. I really appreciate you and what you're all about. You are part and parcel of the energy transition, whether you're an energy professional today, or an aspiring energy professional. So thank you, I want to let you know that the Clean Power Hour has launched a listener survey. And it would mean so much to me. If you would go to cleanpowerhour.com click on the About Us link right there on the main navigation that takes you to the about page and you'll see a big graphic listener survey, just click on that graphic and it takes just a couple of minutes. If you fill out the survey, I will send you a lovely baseball cap with our logo on it. The other thing I want our listeners to know is that this podcast is made possible by corporate sponsors. We have ChinT Power Systems, the leading three phase string inverter manufacturer in North America. So check out CPS America, but we are very actively looking for additional support to make this show work. And you see here our media kit with all the sponsor benefits and statistics about the show, you know, we're dropping two episodes a week. We have now over 320,000 downloads on YouTube. And we're getting about 45,000 downloads per month. So this is a great way to bring your brand to our listeners and our listeners are decision makers in clean energy. This includes projects executives, engineers, finance, project management, and many other professionals who are making decisions about and developing, designing, installing and making possible clean energy project. So check out cleanpowerhour.com both our listener survey on the about us and our media kit and become a sponsor today. Thank you so much. Let's go solar and storage