March 3, 2023
Clean Power Hour LIVE | March 2, 2023 | Speeding the Energy Transition
🔥Stay up to date with the latest in solar, wind, and energy storage news with Tim Montague and John Weaver (Commercial Solar Guy)! 🤩 We break down the tools, technologies, and trends that are speeding the energy transition. Tune in LIVE on Thursdays at 12 noon EST/ 9 AM Pacific/ 11 Central/ 10 Mountain and give us a rating and review on Apple or Spotify. 📝 Don't forget to subscribe to our YouTube channel too! If you have any questions or feedback, reach out to us at tim@cleanpowerhour.com or visit our website www.cleanpowerhour.com.🔌 🔋 💡
This week John Weaver and I discuss,
1. How Much Land Would it Require to Get Most of Our Electricity from Wind and Solar?
2. Solar developers getting involved in solar panel factories
3. Clean Energy production distribution in 2022
4. Distributed ownership for distributed manufacturing - Germans seeking to own a solar panel manufacturing factory
5. Ford gets an order - USPS to purchase 9,000 electric vehicles and install 14,000 charging stations
6. World first! Charging a Chevy Bolt EV on a Tesla Supercharger using Magic Dock
7. CATL starts a battery price war - lithium pricing has been falling recently, way off the peak
8. California seeking 85 GW of generation resources by 2035
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What technologies are trending?
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Subscribe: https://bit.ly/cph-sub
The podcast is available on YouTube and audio platforms like Spotify, Apple, Google, and Amazon. We bring you interviews with cleantech entrepreneurs, investors, manufacturers, and energy professionals weekly.
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Why are we excited about agrivoltaics or dual-use solar?
What are the challenges and opportunities for renewable energy, electrification of transportation, and decarbonizing the economy?
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The Clean Power Hour is produced by the Clean Power Consulting Group and created by Tim Montague. Please subscribe on your favorite audio platform and on Youtube: bit.ly/cph-sub | www.CleanPowerHour.com | contact us by email: CleanPowerHour@gmail.com | Speeding the energy transition!
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All right, we are live today is the second of March 2023. Welcome to the Clean Power Hour live. I'm Tim Montague, your co host, check out all of our content at clean power hour.com Give us a rating and a review on Apple and Spotify so that many 1000s of other people can find this content. And together, we can speed the energy transition.
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Welcome to the show, my co host and the commercial solar guy, John Weaver.
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Hey, Tim, I hope you're doing well. And I know we're going to be talking about land. Cuz that's what we were talking about. Just before we hit the record button.
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Well, the question for you, John, the question is, and I want I want an answer, man is how much land would it require to get most of our electricity from wind? And solar? Because this is a question on so many people's minds? It's a great question.
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And the answer might shock you.
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But what is your answer?
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There? I'll do my first answer just to have some fun. Technically, we don't need to use any land. We can float it all on the ocean and then have power lines coming in. I know we live in and around. Yeah, yeah.
00:01:08.879 --> 00:01:33.659
So we can have fun with it. Um, for the United States, hypothetically, we could get 40 to 50% of our electricity from rooftops. And then we could get the other 50% from parking lots if we wanted. So there's that path. We could get 10 to 1510 to 20%, floating solar, maybe 10.
00:01:33.930 --> 00:02:12.240
But 10 to 15. We could, you know, there's lots of ways to get solar electricity, I even read once that if we were to transition all of the nation's windows, to electric solar windows, we could get like 15 ish percent of our electricity from that. So we could get 100% of our electricity without installing a single solar panel on the land. If if we wanted to without installing. Sorry. So that's what I that's what I sound like, that's terrible. I'm sorry, everybody else stop talking about
00:02:12.990 --> 00:02:15.930
you sound good?
00:02:12.990 --> 00:04:03.990
And yeah, you know, so there's a story in the Union of Concerned Scientists blog by a gentleman named Steve Clemmer, very smart guy. He is the director of energy research and analysis at the you see, SS we call them and if you're not familiar with the Union of Concerned Scientists, check them out just Google that it's you see s, USA dot O R G, there are nonprofit dedicated to science and environmental health, and a safer, healthier future for humanity. And there's no BS there. And it's it's great, credible, scientific information. So anyway, he has broken down from a bunch of different resources like and Ralph, the National Renewable Energy Laboratory, what we have concluded about Greening the Grid, and he includes, you know, great statistics on Well, what is the Biden administration goal, for example, cutting US emissions 50%, below 22,005 levels by 2030. Right. And, you know, my monitor, John, is that we're going to, we're going to 10x the amount of solar on the grid, by 2050. We're gonna go from a 5% solar grid today to a 50% solar grid in 2050. Now, that's, what 27 years away. And, but it's it is astounding growth. And but we are not going to pave over the breadbasket To achieve this, John, right. As you pointed out, we could just use the ocean 70% of the earth is ocean and 70% of the Earth's population lives near the ocean.
00:03:58.710 --> 00:05:01.290
So it's quite economical in the greater scheme of things to put floating solar and wind on the ocean. And Mark Jacobson talks about this in his new book. So if you you know, really want to geek out on the science, check out Mark Jacobson at Stanford University. But the answer is one to 2%. Using, you know, all the traditional sources that we know, rooftop solar, ground mounted solar, small utility, solar, large utility, solar, and then of course, utility wind, and, you know, we use 40% of our land, John for growing cows, sheep, pigs, livestock, right 40% of our real estate in this country goes to those food sources. And so if we can afford one to 2% for a clean grid for a safer, healthier future, we can we can afford The future basically, right?
00:05:03.089 --> 00:06:41.459
Yeah, I mean, we, we use more land for golf courses than we would need to make clean electricity. We use as much land as maybe like, what was it front yard grass, like that green stuff that has no purpose other than pure aesthetics. We use more lands by far for oil extraction, if we were to simply turn all land that's used for oil, and coal into solar land, we'd 100% cover our solar. So this argument that people say, Oh, it takes up too much land. It's really just and a talking point for lower educated individuals. I know that sounds really mean, but it's just, it's just to manipulate people. And it comes up constantly, just because we have to create fear in our US political model. So I love these. I love bringing up the stats about these numbers and showing people what the real numbers are. You know, there's a famous quote out there that says, a 10,000 square mile chunk somewhere in Arizona could power the whole nation. And, you know, 100 by 100 Mile Square this nation has like, I don't know, I'm not sure how many square miles a nation is hundreds of 1000s Millions. And we got plenty of land space, we land isn't the question. The question is, are we going to build power lines to move that electricity?
00:06:37.290 --> 00:07:11.699
Are we going to incentivize the higher costs for rooftops for parking lots? And, and you know, the picture you have on here, it's, that just shows something we could, I mean, we have so much land, we have gifts of my elder, and it's right in the middle. I love that one. Oil and gas leases on federal land, right there. If we use that land, yep, we could power the nation. Trade it out. Now, it's not that easy, of course. But it's just land is not the challenge.
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Look at the ethanol square, right, the corn to ethanol state is greater than we would need to tirely green our grid. And using corn for ethanol is hugely inefficient.
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The science on that is that it's 100 times less efficient, energetically than it is to just convert farmland to solar PV and get electricity straight out of it and use the electricity to drive your car or run your factory, right. Corn to ethanol is a boondoggle. And our government subsidises that industry, because the farm lobby is so powerful, and I can't blame them for doing that.
00:07:50.009 --> 00:09:51.059
That's in their best interest, right? Growing cash crops, corn and beans. In this case, corn for ethanol is profitable. But it's totally dependent on subsidies. Now, we have to be careful when we talk subsidies because renewable energy is also a subsidised industry. But when you think about the impact on the land, and human health and the environment and other living things, and a safer future, well, there's no better way really, right to create a safer, healthier future for humanity than to clean the grid. That is, you know, a penultimate solution, so to speak. It solves the climate crisis. And it saves the lives of 6 million people every year, a holocaust every year, is happening because we burn fossil fuels. And we need to really drill this into our heads and understand this that this is massive suffering, and loss of life and dumbing people down. And yeah, and of course, with climate change. Ultimately, there's going to be massive migration of huge, huge numbers of people who are going to come to the Midwest, because they don't have a place to live where they can have enough to eat. And when that happens, all hell breaks loose, and the wheels come off of society, and you're living in an apocalypse. And I don't want to live in an apartment apocalypse and I don't want my grandchildren to live in an apocalypse either. So it's, and it's just good for the economy to right. It's good for people profit and planet. Why don't we want to do this? Or why do we want to slow it down? Like we reported on last year? I can't remember the name of that nonprofit that is fueling nimbyism, right in rural communities. That just drives me nuts.
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I agree. And I like to throw this one out there just because I like to argue. We don't incentivize renewables.
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What we do is that we've, for politically palatable purposes, we've renamed carbon tax. we've renamed the pollution tax, because we know that people are afraid of the word tax. And so what we've done is say, okay, society, you're afraid of paying taxes and being responsible for your own activities, well, then we're going to manipulate you.
00:10:23.340 --> 00:10:49.889
And what we're going to do is we're going to call this a investment tax credit. So we're going to flip it, and we're going to say, You know what, instead of you people paying a tax, we'll give you a tax credit. And this tax credit really, is simply to balance out the pollution that fossils create. And that's why clean energy generation gets tax credits. They're not incentives.
00:10:50.220 --> 00:10:58.649
They're carbon taxes. And we just had to rename it because society as you know, we're lazy.
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We're dumb. We're monkey still, we got our lizard brain dominating so much of our day to day, and this is what you got to deal with. So. So yeah, we got plenty of land, we got plenty of roofs, we got plenty of parking lots, we got plenty of ocean, we have plenty of manufacturing capacity, like we're about to blow off all the arguments that matter. And if people start to say, oh, but you got to build power lines, well, guess what?
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No, we don't. If you don't do the power lines, we're not going to build solar power. In those Midwest regions. We're going to build it locally. And we're going to build a whole bunch of batteries. And we will need the power lines. And because there's plenty of land in the population centres. You know, I, I know a really smart guy named Wesley Hirsch. He got his PhD from Arizona State University. He works for Amazon. He's just, you know, love talking to him met him recently, again. He wrote a document that said within 50 miles of pretty much every population centre in the United States is enough land to service it with solar. Yeah. So 75% of the population 80% lives on the east and west coast, within 50 miles of that is enough space to feed those people the electricity they need. Great.
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You don't want to build transmission lines don't care.
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We're going to build batteries.
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And if you think we don't have enough batteries to build, remember that time back in 2010, you said, Oh, solar panels will never scale. Well, you people are going to be wrong again. And it's okay to be wrong. But, you know, just be quiet about being wrong.
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I mean, I'm with Elon, my goal is to be less wrong. And let's face it, we are we're mostly wrong. We're mostly ignorant of how the universe works. So let's talk about one of your stories in PV magazine and invite Wesley on the show.
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We'd love to talk to him on a live on a Thursday afternoon. We do this live every Thursday at noon, or most Thursdays, if John and I are travelling, we don't do it. But three out of four weekend, a week, certainly a month we're here at noon, Eastern 11, Central 10 Pacific and nine, sorry, nine Pacific 10 Mountain 11, central solar produced 4.7 of US electricity in 2022. Generation up 25%. What are you talking about Mr. Weaver in PV magazine.
00:13:30.120 --> 00:13:52.200
So the EIA, the Energy Information Administration, a subset of the US Department of Energy, a lot of big words, they put out their annual numbers and their annual numbers come out in February, late February, because that includes through December. And with that over the course of 2022. I did some spreadsheets.
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There's some cool pictures if you want to share the article, and we can show a couple images.
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But in essence,
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and yeah, here we go. Cool.
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In essence, the United States generated about 3.8 to 3.9% of its electricity from solar PV solar photovoltaics last year, who this is a good image, I like this one. You should zoom in on that chart if you can. But in 2022, that number grew from 3.88% up to 4.7, just greater than it and that's cool. That's a 20 ish percent growth and percent. So 3.88 to four seven grew about 20 25%. But and generation volume also grew 25%.
00:14:38.279 --> 00:15:23.580
This is in a year in which total electricity grew by 3.5%. So solar would have grown more if we hadn't seen such a large growth in our electricity demand this year, which was which might, you know, which is interesting. And so oehlers growth, more than covered all of the electricity growth in the United States last year. Now, over the since about 2007, electricity demand has been roughly flat plus or minus every year. So this is not a new thing. You know, solar growth has been covering electricity growth for a while. But it's just a big year for growth 3.5%.
00:15:23.940 --> 00:15:50.669
And it's cool. Now, this chart is really neat, because this is the monthly data going back about two years. And it shows the little low lines of distributed solar per the EIA, and the red lines have utility scale, you add those up and you get the blue lines. Now, it's probable that the yellow lines undercount the amount of distributed electricity, because technically, utilities don't know how much is distributed.
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They guesstimate they just see that the use at a house has dropped, they see that the use of the business has dropped.
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They don't know how much is coming. They don't know what changes have occurred. So so there's that but at a minimum, in April of last year, and in May, we saw greater than 6% of our electricity come from solar.
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Those are our peak months. And then of course, we saw January and December be our low months.
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are spinning backwards? Don't they know?
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Well, that's only net metered electricity. What about electricity that's being consumed on site. So instantaneously used electricity is not tracked anywhere by anybody, except for solar inverter manufacturers and the onsite people. So you know, NVZ solar, of
00:16:39.538 --> 00:16:47.489
the community solar? I don't know. I mean, does the yellow include small utility like community or just rooftop DGD? It's,
00:16:48.210 --> 00:17:55.859
it's, it's all stuff that's behind the metre, because it might be other than just pure behind the metre. But the utility scale is all projects that are standalone one megawatt or greater. And we know that there's more capacity out there than that. This chart I like this is showing total emission free electricity. And there's a nuance in this emission free definition where we don't like well, we may and PV Intel, we don't like the definition of renewables from the EIA, because renewables includes burning gas from landfills, burning garbage, and other items. So yeah, it's a renewable source. But we don't care about renewables if we're burning wood and still putting emissions out. So this is emission free. And if you look at that chart, and includes nuclear, wind, hydro, solar, geothermal, and solar thermal, and so we are again, growing after last year having a pullback, but we're again growing with our emission free, and we're almost to 38% of all electricity being emission free.
00:17:56.279 --> 00:20:02.579
And we had a nice, a rough fall off over the last two years, because we lost a lot of nuclear. Nuclear went from almost 20%, down to like almost 18%. So that's a big chunk of electricity that was lost. But that's just the state of nuclear right now in the US. Hopefully, we don't lose too many more of these plants. But it's cool to see us approaching 40% emission free electricity. And, you know, this is a key argument for anybody who sees the BS coming about electric vehicles. You know, you often see a picture where you're where an electric vehicle owner is mocked, and they say, Oh, you're driving an Eevee ha ha your car doesn't pollute, but your car is powered by coal. No, it's not. In fact, coal only makes up like 20% of electricity. 40% is clean. So shut up people. Here is total electricity by source across the whole of the United States. And we see that fossils are under 60%, we see nuclear with its big old chunk at 17.8. Wind broke through 10%, which is awesome wind over 10. So now wind plus solar, which are really for now the two most important clean energy sources, geothermal, I really hope catches on and starts to grow. But, uh, wind and solar broke fit well, almost 15%, you know, 4.7 4.8 Plus, you know, 10 one were like 14 814, nine ish. So that's cool. And, you know, this is just the annual report. It makes me happy to see it. We're going to see a little bit slower growth rate this year from solar, because the capacity deployed in 2022 was lower than 2021. Sadly, same for renewables. But, you know, we're still building so, you know, it's a good report. Happy number 4.7%. This year, without a doubt we break through 5% of electricity from solar PV and And we'll see when keep growing.
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Hopefully nuclear stays flat.
00:20:02.700 --> 00:20:10.349
Actually, we might see a nuclear plant come online. In Georgia.
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It's scheduled to come online in April, it was scheduled to come online in like 2015. So whatever we'll see, and then we'll have a second nuclear reactor at this same site. Probably come on next year. It probably won't make it this year. But that's gonna help, you know. Yes, sir. Yeah.
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Is it a silent T? I, Vogel, I don't know how to pronounce stuff. I don't know. Wonderful.
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So Vogel in Georgia. Yes.
00:20:38.279 --> 00:21:40.349
And yeah, and, you know, if you if you are looking for really good credible information on the nuclear industry, check out any is the nuclear energy information service based in Chicago, you know, there's a war going on in Illinois. Now, John, about nuclear, because the state has a law saying that you cannot develop new nuclear plants. But there's a major push by companies like GE, Hitachi, these are the guys that build nuclear power plants to develop a next generation. They call them small modular reactors. But the technology is identical, for all intents and purposes, and it produces nuclear waste. And that's the problem with our fleet of 12 nuclear power plants here in Illinois is that we don't have anywhere to take the waste. And so it lives on site where the nuclear waste is generated, they put it in containers, and then they put the containers inside pools of water, so it doesn't overheat.
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And it's just a disaster waiting to happen. Because if the water drains out of the pool, it can, it can catch fire, there can be problems. You can have radioactive smoke blowing into your community. And or if somebody crashes the plane into it, you know, there's many things that could happen. We want a national plan and solution to the nuclear waste problem. And we don't have that.
00:22:03.359 --> 00:22:32.640
And the yucca mountains of the world have not driven forward for things like, Well, I don't want those trains driving that nuclear waste through my community, literally, the communities push back on having the waste just travelled through their state, much less lived there long term. So there is a movement, though, to repeal this law that we can't have new nuclear in Illinois. And it's, as any is says, a nuclear war.
00:22:32.640 --> 00:23:25.200
So check it out. But they host webinars with people like Mark Jacobson, who just I mean, the dudes does nothing but study the energy industry, right. And nuclear is not economical, which is why we're not building more nuclear plants in this country, it has nothing to do with this, the technology, per se, it's the cost of power, we can get, you know, two to four cent solar power, right, with a large scale solar facility. You can't get below 10 cents with nuclear, you're more in the 20 to 30 cent zone. And so when we, when you can, when you can produce power at a quarter of the price, with wind and solar, that's what's going to grow. And that's why the excels of the world. The major utilities in this country are shuttering their fleets of traditional sources and investing in wind, solar and battery.
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You know, the nuclear pricing? I don't know if 2030 cents is the number. I mean, like Illinois has some of the cheapest know, for new new Illinois has some of the cheapest? We don't? Maybe I mean, you can just we can argue that I know I listen. I study Volvo. I definitely do. I've studied Volvo. And it's a crap project. And I don't know why we are so terrible at building nuclear. I mean, I have some ideas. But if if, yeah, I don't know, I think we should be building new nuclear. And I think the federal government should just kick some people in the face and say, shut up. We have to build nukes, and get over it and let us store the waste. And if you don't, we're going to we're going to eminent domain your house and dig a pit 1000 2000 feet deep. And we're just going to put it there and
00:24:22.289 --> 00:24:35.160
the building new nuclear fundamentally. And I'm opposed to it in the current scenario where we don't have a plan for the nuclear waste.
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Okay. We don't yeah, the reality is we don't have a plan. Okay.
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And so you have this fleet. I mean, 12 nuclear power plants in one state, okay. And they're just stockpiling electricity.
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They're just stockpiling this stuff. It's extremely dangerous.
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So well, let's keep going. We could do a whole show. Just on the nuclear industry at some point, maybe we should but today we've got more stories to cover solar developers getting involved in solar panel factories. We report a lot on the solar module industry on this show for good reason. Right now 70% of solar modules are made elsewhere that are consumed in the United States, right.
00:25:20.970 --> 00:25:30.900
And, and so we need to onshore and restore manufacturing of solar modules, and it is happening, what's the story, John?
00:25:32.338 --> 00:28:22.229
So this story is about three, maybe four plants deals in which a solar developer has said that they are going to engage with a solar panel manufacturer, and either a explicitly partner or be line up their procurement contracts with the financing of a solar factory. So it's, we're literally seeing solar developers saying we have so much capacity, and we need to guarantee our product that we're going to get married to a factory and, and there's a few people where it's happened. And my favourite, which actually caused me much emotional consternation when I first saw the headline is that Meyer burger signed a deal with a developer from your home. Desi, I always forget what their name is. If we scroll down, we'll see their name. But they signed the deal for to expand the Arizona facility. And the Arizona facility from Meyer burger went from one gigawatt to like two gigs, something like that, maybe even three, three gigs a year of manufacturing capacity, with a guarantee that Desi desert will purchase 3.5 gigs of that capacity output. And it's explicitly stated that the payments from the solar developer to purchase the modules would be used to help finance the factory costs. And this helped Meyer Berger, not have to reach out to the marketplace for more capital more cash, because these companies here we go where they scroll up a tiny bit. These companies Oh, two more paragraphs. These companies, these developers have huge capital here it is d Shaw cheese. Yeah, I should know their name Dez re not Desi. So de Shaw said that they would literally help Meyer burger finance. So they the wording was from the press release, de Shaw will pay a substantial annual downpayment. This is going to help cover the cost of building a factory. And this is really interesting, because solar developers, they already take on so much risk, interconnection risk, off tastes great development risk. Just so many risks with the way regulators work and solar plants and local zoning. Now they're taking on risk with factory construction and manufacturing. And that speaks of at least one thing, it speaks of the strong, long term viability of the large scale solar development marketplace.
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And the fact that banks look at a company like de Shaw, I mean, de SHA is backed by one of the really smart finance guy themselves. But it says that banks and finance people are looking at the de shores of the world and saying, Hey, your pipeline is strong enough that we're willing to risk a couple 100 million bucks building this factory, because you will cover 25 30% of its output. I that's just pretty cool. And it speaks of a future, which is a little different with solar panel manufacturing. And, you know, there's other examples, you know, the first solar one, it wasn't explicitly tied together.
00:28:58.769 --> 00:30:25.679
But first solar, you know, I, I would put money, and I don't know anything about it. So this is just a talking head. I would put money though, that first solar has a list of all of their potential deals that they could sign on a financiers desk who's funding there for five gigawatts, seven gigawatts of upgrades of new facilities. And for solar is going to be going from like three gigs to 10 gigs by 2025. And for solar has signed multiple deals with large scale groups saying we're gonna sell this much capacity. And it's, again, it's solar developers and their pipelines that are leading to module manufacturers getting deals, because in the United States, we have a harsh capitalist finance world. In China. It's the state that has stated we have a national security interest in funding the Solar factories. And these companies, they're not necessarily always profitable because they're constantly upgrading their factories and their machines that make them modules that needs a lot of money. And when you're in a downward priced product war across the globe, so it's the it's more complex to close a deal in the US and China in certain finance ways, you know, in politics and connections.
00:30:22.648 --> 00:30:41.398
China is a very complex company country as well. I'm sure there's a lot of challenges, but it's just different models. And so I'm just interested in seeing how all these companies and their huge pipelines are connecting with manufacturers.
00:30:37.648 --> 00:31:42.898
And it's cool. And so I covered it. And you know, right there, you have that paragraph. Even before the IRA was signed, six major developers said, listen, folks, give us some modules, we'll buy seven gigs, a year from you, folks, if you're willing to guarantee us capacity in the United States. And that's just pretty cool. And, and then, of course, one that actually makes me sad. Celerina is no longer an independent solar module manufacturer. And I've known this for a few months. And I kind of felt it for a few months, because in the fall, Summer, late summer of last year, Soleri product became very hard to get. And in the spring, it was available. In the fall, things got started getting sketchy. And I don't know explicitly if it's related to their merger. But now there's a residential manufacturer or residential installer, who pretty much owns Celerio, or I guess there was a merger, I don't know the dynamics of who's the big dog in the relationship.
00:31:39.659 --> 00:32:05.368
But I'm assuming that this residential company gets first dibs on all Celerio modules. And that might mean that little players like whaling city solar, from New Bedford, Massachusetts doesn't get malaria modules, because we're too much of a small fry. And whatever. That's cool. There's plenty of other panels, but Celerio were so nice. So dark, nice, efficient.
00:32:00.028 --> 00:32:08.608
People liked him. And, and so there's good and bad about this, but it's the markets changing.
00:32:08.669 --> 00:32:16.199
And I think that's really what the thing is the market has evolved. And what's going to come of it? I don't know, but it's fun to watch.
00:32:17.970 --> 00:32:20.849
Yeah, you know, I have a few comments about this.
00:32:20.910 --> 00:32:51.539
And there's, there's certainly at face value, a certain logic, right that if you're a major solar developer, meaning you're buying solar equipment, you have a vested interest in having a line of sight, a runway to product. And one way of doing that is to invest in the manufacturers of those products, solar panels, racking inverters.
00:32:45.150 --> 00:33:36.779
D. Shaw, David Shaw, the founder is a computer scientists from the University of Illinois, and then went to Wall Street and became a very successful hedge fund manager. And then they propped up a renewable energy division. And now there are major solar developer, which is very telling that financial companies are getting into the solar industry. Because it's all about ROI. They exist to make money, and they're getting into clean energy, because it is a gold rush. That's a double edge, in and of itself. But anyway, that vertical integration makes perfect sense. Because supply chain is brutal when your product is coming from halfway around the world and has to travel on a container from Asia to the United States. And then it has to go through a port.
00:33:37.049 --> 00:34:44.940
There's all kinds of problems that can happen. And so yeah, onshoring and reshoring manufacturing, it's a wonderful thing. And excuse me, and thank you for this story, because I think you do a great job of laying out what's going on, and a lot of it is due to the IRA legislation. It's not all IRA, we had for solar, before we had IRA. Now we just have a much bigger for solar. And we have a much bigger q cells. And, and a growing cadre of solar panel companies coming to the United States and eventually the complete lifecycle, right from ingot, to wafer to cell to panel, as we reported a couple of weeks ago with q cells with Scott on the show. So it's it's and this is this is high wage jobs, these factory jobs. It's a good living, and it's national security. And you just can't argue with these these things.
00:34:40.019 --> 00:35:01.619
It's laughable that there's a movement in Congress to repeal the IRA legislation. It's totally laughable because it is good for red states. It's good for blue states. It's good for everybody. And and it's game on So let's move on John.
00:35:02.820 --> 00:36:23.219
So the next story, I'm just going to say it out loud, I don't want to discuss it because it really lines up with a story. We just finished talking. In Germany, there's a little bit of a movement to have a people owned solar module manufacturing, manufacturing facility. So a Volks solar module factory, I don't know how to save a solar module factory in German. So Volks something, folks module, but I just, it's just it's there's an evolution that's occurring with these modules. Makes me wonder, you know, last week, I don't, I had it on one of our prior shows, I don't know if we posted it. But there's a person in Italy, who's taking what we would call in South Florida Spanish tiles, you know, those, you know, just clay tiles that are on a roof. And he's integrating solar panels in solar cells in them by hand. So might we have a what would be the word, a tiny industry, a cottage industry of solar module makers around the world who are because solar cells might become trivial? I don't know about trivial, but they might become like, just widely available for everybody. And if that's the case, that'd be kind of neat. I mean, we could just have, you know, roll your own module factory type of stuff. And I don't know they might not last 50 years, but it's it's it's an evolution. There's an evolution occurring. We're all part of it.
00:36:23.250 --> 00:36:26.880
Artisan, Chris. You're awesome.
00:36:23.250 --> 00:36:33.750
That is the exact word I was looking for. Chris. Chris just commented, artisan solar panel makers, we should give, we should give Chris some race.
00:36:33.869 --> 00:36:42.389
Chris, how much are we paying?
00:36:33.869 --> 00:36:42.389
Yeah. Get on that, Tim. In time,
00:36:42.389 --> 00:36:58.110
speaking of money, we should we should give a shout out to chin power systems for sponsoring the show. And I'm looking forward to going to Dallas in a couple of weeks for their innovation day. At their headquarters in Dallas, Texas.
00:36:58.409 --> 00:37:02.489
Chin is a leading manufacturer of three phase string inverters.
00:37:03.030 --> 00:37:45.780
And everything from small commercial to utility scale. Now they have a 250 to 375 Kw line of string inverters. They're doing 100 megawatt projects with the string inverters now, you think of Hunter mags, you think, oh, central inverters? No, you're you're seeing large scale solar now using these string inverters, which is which is very cool. So looking forward to bringing them on to our Thursday, live sometime in the near future. And we'll be recording a couple of interviews with them for the pre recorded segment, check out all of our content at Clean Power hour.com.
00:37:41.579 --> 00:37:52.349
And give us a rating and a review. Thank you, Chris, for your comments and for your leadership in the solar panel sales world. Chris Loveman.
00:37:52.829 --> 00:37:55.710
Solar Panel expert, so it's great to have your comments.
00:37:57.630 --> 00:37:58.380
About Chris's
00:37:58.380 --> 00:38:13.409
artisan soul. So Chris. Yeah, Chris is a developer as well. He helps sell modules. He recently sold my company about 780 kilowatts of modules for a project that is almost Well, the modules are almost fully installed.
00:38:13.409 --> 00:38:28.800
Actually, the modules are installed. I need to give Chris a video so he can show off. But I also say I saw CPS at the northeast show. And in Boston last week, last Wednesday, Thursday,
00:38:28.980 --> 00:38:45.119
and the attorney you spoke with by the way. He's the guy who sounds like an attorney, apparently, but he was not an attorney. I talked. I talked to Brian Wagner, their President about that interaction. So well, I
00:38:45.119 --> 00:39:23.699
spoke to multiple people. I spoke to a guy who definitely said he reviewed your contract and I spoke to salespeople, and I, you know, spoke to like three or four people so so CPS has product, which was cool. And they were smart folks, when I got the sales guy and he walked through all the details of their different inverters. You know, they have some 208 V, and they have some for ADV product. We were looking at their 208 v, because we had a project that, you know, we had a 208 volt connection, and we're still figuring out how to use transformers. And their product didn't fit because it was a little too big. But it's they got inverter so so that's cool.
00:39:19.559 --> 00:39:28.230
All right. What are we talking about next, Tim? Can we talk about Ford and the United States Postal Service in
00:39:28.230 --> 00:39:43.469
the US PS? As I said in the pre show, John, what a boondoggle it was last year, when the USPS announced that they were going to buy a big fleet of ice engine vehicles but apparently that deal fell through so what's the story?
00:39:45.300 --> 00:40:16.769
So a while back during a prior regime, and individual allows the United States Postal Service to re up its its vehicles with gas vehicles when We're obviously in a different world than spending billions on gas vehicles. And recently, probably about six months ago, that order was cancelled, and so there will be no gas fleet upgrade for the United States Postal Service.
00:40:13.860 --> 00:40:21.150
With that, it was said that the USPS will shift to an all electric vehicle procurement.
00:40:22.050 --> 00:40:34.949
This, I believe, is the first official order of that. And I believe also they're going to be Ford Sprinter vans, which really excites me as a solar contractor. So we have to give the title
00:40:34.949 --> 00:41:03.449
we have to remember that a lot of our listeners are listening to this on audio. And so this is a story Bill USPS to purchase 9000 electric vehicles instal 14,000 charging stations and story by Zack BOOTREC. So great story about a bulk purchase. And the mail delivery guy could soon be driving an Eevee. Right?
00:40:59.519 --> 00:41:05.280
Absolutely. What percentage of their fate is 9000? Vehicles?
00:41:06.300 --> 00:41:10.079
I have no idea. I'm they're probably several 100,000. So we're talking one person's
00:41:10.079 --> 00:41:12.210
championship GPT when we need it?
00:41:13.500 --> 00:41:26.369
Well, I'm good at Google. So how many vehicles does the USPS owe 231,000 At the end of 2020, so 10,000 into 230.
00:41:26.400 --> 00:41:39.840
It sounds like about 5% 10.23 divided by 230 123 4.34%. So it's a start? Yep, it's a start.
00:41:33.389 --> 00:41:56.460
And I like it. And they're going to be Ford sprinters, I believe, which is a wonderful vehicle to store some solar modules in and use for your site. And so the speed though, is one thing that I noticed very soon. And it might even be in this article.
00:41:53.550 --> 00:42:05.489
But immediately, there are going to be 14,000 chargers that will be displayed. And I believe like 75 Oh, there you go. 75 unique locations starting next month.
00:42:05.880 --> 00:42:47.940
So the deal was signed, and bam, they're getting to work. And so we're going to now see Evie charging at your local post office. That's 14,000. Chargers, I mean, the public probably won't be able to use those units. But whatever. It's going to be their infrastructure for when the jeeps will be turned into some sort of, you know, and so it's just it's growing, and it's changing, and the United States Postal Service is going to lead and it's an 10,000 unit 9250 unit order. You know, let's say these are $75,000 units, that's 10,000 times 75,000.
00:42:47.940 --> 00:43:37.829
That's 75 million bucks of procurement, that's going to be going to Ford for EVs. That's, that's, that's nice. Where are they going to be built, I wonder? Probably in Tennessee, Georgia, you know, in the southeast, where all that stuff's going on. But that's 10,000 units that are going to end up getting built and that order will grow. And then people like me, willing city, solar commercial solar guy, we're gonna buy an electric Sprinter van, when they become available, reasonable, etc. And I can't wait to show up to instal solar panels with an electric vehicle that it was at least partially charged by wind, solar, hydro, nuclear, clean electricity, it's, you know, it's just, it's the goal, and we're starting to see fruition from the transition. And, and it's happening, so, so I don't know just feels good. Feels good to see happen. So thank you USPS.
00:43:38.579 --> 00:44:08.460
Well, speaking of electric vehicles, you found a story in electric world first charging a Chevy Bolt EV on a Tesla Supercharger using magic dock. So apparently, there's a product out there called Magic dock that you can plug a charger a Tesla Supercharger into, and then jack that into your ordinary Chevy Bolt, and actually charge your bolt from a supercharger without any extra permission, or how does that work.
00:44:09.840 --> 00:44:40.019
So the magic dock is a device made by Tesla that they attach to their Supercharger network. And so if you can share it, we can show the magic doc in the image for those who are watching. But if you go to electric.co, or you just type in to Google world first charging a Chevy Bolt EV, you'll find it. It's just a little box that converts and you plug in the same charger plug.
00:44:35.550 --> 00:44:40.019
Probably with a little adapter.
00:44:40.050 --> 00:44:53.010
I can't actually see the adapter thing there. But there's definitely an adapter I can see it. Yep. And so use this adapter to plug into the car. And so I downloaded the Tesla app because that's where you can find them and I now have it on my phone.
00:44:53.250 --> 00:45:38.550
And you can see at least some charging units that are now are compatible with any car and I will be visiting some because some of them are an i 90, which heads to my brother's house in upstate New York. And so I'm looking forward to going to spend very much time on these networks at least for the next couple of years or a year and a half because for another year and I don't want to pay so the Electrify America chargers I'm going to keep using them as best as I can. But for now, you can now bring your charge charging charging
00:45:39.000 --> 00:45:42.539
America for
00:45:42.570 --> 00:46:04.230
through the end of through next year sorry I can tell that my connections not as strong Sorry everybody. I have free charging so I will do my best to avoid I'll do my best to avoid the network but I am going to test it out. I'll get some pictures for us to share. But now Yeah. Tesla app
00:46:04.289 --> 00:46:09.090
we haven't done Weaver charging his his you drove a Hyundai is that right?
00:46:12.059 --> 00:46:12.929
Ionic five
00:46:15.630 --> 00:46:29.460
I want to see I want to see a photo of you charging that as at a Tesla Supercharger. happen soon. All right, we got got a couple more stories we can squeeze in here.
00:46:30.239 --> 00:46:46.199
projects of the week. Round mount that crossed the irrigation canal. That's a cool thing. Yeah, we we have a lot of canals and trenches and ditches.
00:46:41.489 --> 00:46:50.699
In our farmland. I don't know where this photo is from. What where is this? Geographically?
00:46:50.699 --> 00:46:54.000
I'll put this on screen in a second Zimmerman PV steel group.
00:46:55.349 --> 00:47:03.030
I think it may have been in the Netherlands. They do a lot of aggressive solar design there. Let's see. Yeah, it
00:47:03.028 --> 00:47:23.639
sounds Yeah, Netherlands. Sounds European for sure. I be Voight GmbH. Is the customer. Let me get this on screen. So so this is this is a unique form of racking, is that the crux of it?
00:47:24.659 --> 00:47:47.550
No, the racking itself seems to be standard, what the key is and when you share an image, we'll be able to see it because that they added a new component so that you can see that component, that white bar that goes at an angle underneath. And that white bar that is it looks like you know perpendicular almost so not perpendicular at an angle to the rest of the racking system.
00:47:44.880 --> 00:47:47.550
ticular to the canal. Yeah.
00:47:48.090 --> 00:48:03.389
Yeah, perpendicular to the canal. That piece allows the racking to sit on top of it. So somebody said, Okay, we don't have our normal helical ground screws that we can put in, how do we support this system?
00:48:00.090 --> 00:48:28.920
Engineers did some math. And they said, Well, we were this perfect image right there. They said, well, we can do this a span. And so what it is it's 2030 foot span of steel, where the racking instead of going into the dirt, the racking connects to this unit. And it gives strength and it allows the unit to have its stability that it needs in order to not be lifted up by the wind. That's really what it comes down to.
00:48:26.579 --> 00:48:37.530
And it almost looks from this image. It looks like stitches or sutures like oh, yeah, cut myself. And, and it's just neat.
00:48:32.340 --> 00:49:12.119
It allowed somebody this is you know, this is cool. It allowed somebody to maximise their Agra voltaic because this looks like an agro voltaic instal, and that's what's going to happen another lens in many places, but allowed somebody to maximise their agro voltaic instal, on a piece of chopped up lands, with, you know, some extra steel for structural support. And when I saw it, I was just like, Oh, I love smart engineers. I love people who are good at CAD or whatever it is that made this just creativity. So good job, neat little project. i i One day we'll build one maybe.
00:49:14.519 --> 00:49:46.710
Yeah, putting putting solar on canals and ditches is a good thing. And or other waterways. You know, in I think this is happening in India, it's starting to happen in California now too. And it reduces the evaporation from the canal. So more water gets to wherever you're trying to deliver that water to whether that's for drinking or for farming, and it's a good thing.
00:49:40.920 --> 00:49:50.460
And you still get a solar field which is a must
00:49:50.489 --> 00:49:54.179
any positive? Yes.
00:49:50.489 --> 00:49:54.179
A must many positives here.
00:49:54.210 --> 00:49:57.119
So we got our battery story ca TL or catalyst.
00:49:57.119 --> 00:50:14.519
Some people call them I for some reason I just call them ca To but cattle is easier to say it's just conflation with the animal cattle. So I say ca TL but what's the story about CTL you found a story and benchmark benchmark mineral intelligence.
00:50:15.239 --> 00:51:15.210
That's our friend Simon. And we can't really read the full story, because it's a subscription only, but I brought it up because the price of lithium carbonate, cobalt and other components of some batteries has fallen precipitously from its highs of later last year, middle last year, maybe all last year. For instance, lithium carbonate was at like 70,000 bucks per tonne, something like that. Or, yeah, 70 grand per metric tonne. Now it's down to 50. It's still way up over it's 10 to 20 grand 12 grand that it was a year or three ago. But it's falling. And I heard I've heard a few lines about why it's falling one said that Evie demand was evolving, maybe slowing in China, which was the heavy market or it might be that more capacity is coming on. So there's some some details on why this is occurring. But what really matters though, it was now the largest battery manufacturer in the world.
00:51:15.690 --> 00:52:00.210
Cadle. And that's what I call them. Kadal. Okay, you can call them Cattell. I like my sophisticated name Qatal. But they're now saying all right, prices are falling. Let's beat the crap out of some of our competition and hurt their margins because we're better than them. And so they're dropping prices. And it's wonderful to see battery pricing come into a war because that's going to mean everybody will benefit because Cadle not only makes batteries for cars, but they make batteries for stationary energy storage for the grid. And that makes me happy. So, so I just like seeing anybody say that solar modules or batteries are in a price war.
00:52:00.269 --> 00:52:03.150
Wonderful. It's wonderful to me because I'm not a manufacturer.
00:52:04.139 --> 00:52:11.280
But for everybody else, you know, for the rest of us folks are simple people. It's nice to see the price of his hardware coming down.
00:52:11.338 --> 00:52:58.528
It is fascinating that given the ramp up of EVs, how the price of lithium can ebb and flow the way it does you think it would just be one direction but but it ebbs and flows, like so many other markets. So who knew? Let's go on to the Canary media story California UPS renewables target again with a new plan to add 85 gigawatts by 2035. story from Jeff St. John at Kinnari media with a beautiful photo which I'll put on screen here of a solar array in California, with some beautiful California poppies in the background, which is probably blooming right now.
00:52:55.378 --> 00:52:59.338
Because it's spring in California.
00:53:01.409 --> 00:53:07.440
It's spring, didn't they just have some massive snowstorm that like actually made snow in LA and stuff like that?
00:53:08.068 --> 00:53:11.818
It's true. They did. It was it was short lived, though I think.
00:53:13.559 --> 00:53:33.239
I hope for the California and Southwest's water reserves to be well, I know that some of the atmospheric rivers what they called it really helped California, I don't know how much made it across the Rockies into the southwest. But you know, they need some liquid.
00:53:30.750 --> 00:53:38.880
I know there's a lot of snow up there. So we should see some strong hydroelectricity generation numbers from California and in the spring.
00:53:39.090 --> 00:54:14.969
And we're also going to see some strong solar curtailment numbers in the spring because of all that hydro, but that's good for us in total. So but what this is, is, you know, California is constantly working the hardest and leading the nation and figuring out how much electricity it needs to go green to go 100% clean and I think their grid needs to be 100% by law by like 2035, it could be 2040 I know they're supposed to be energy, net zero by 2040.
00:54:07.710 --> 00:55:29.190
Electricity, I think is sooner I get mixed up with all the states. But if you scroll down a little bit, there's a few charts here showing where they think the capacity is going to come from. And they really, you know, there's just going to be lots of solar opportunity going forward still. We're gonna have many gigawatts of solar. I mean, here we see up to 26 gigawatts of solar with offshore wind being a a big one that could affect things because if we have a lot of offshore wind that blows in the evening, I don't know what the characteristics of Pacific Coast wind is. But if we have a lot, that's going to be really massive because offshore wind can just can just move some capacity. But 85 gigs of capacity, potentially come in And there's gonna be a lot of batteries, there's gonna be a lot of solar, there's gonna be a lot of everything coming. And it's just gonna keep moving. I mean, for now, California is still its primary electricity source is still natural gas. And we got to get off that we got to keep going. And I just I love seeing these documents come out from California because they're so well researched. And it's so well pushed by the legislation, they're so I love
00:55:29.190 --> 00:55:39.239
the I love this, the opening paragraph here, the updated carbon cutting goals will require immense amounts of solar batteries, offshore wind, geothermal, and transmission.
00:55:39.659 --> 00:55:44.489
Can it all be built fast enough?
00:55:39.659 --> 00:56:47.730
This is a story, John, that not only applies to California, it applies to our entire nation and the entire world. Can it all be built fast enough, we have the technology, we have the wherewithal, but we have to build it faster. And to avoid climate catastrophe, and create a safer future healthier, a safer, healthier future for humanity, I like to say. So I didn't quite understand these three scenarios. I don't know if you do. But these are just three different scenarios, right, have different mixes of how they're going to achieve those. Those carbon reduction goals. There's many ways to skin the cat, right. But what's cool here for me, too, is that you see large numbers, large numbers of lithium ion battery storage. And I want to do a quick segue to our channel because we have reported on numerous battery storage technology companies.
00:56:44.730 --> 00:57:44.909
And there's several more in the pipeline. So if you're not familiar with our YouTube channel, I mean, all the content is on YouTube and on our audio platform, but just go to the YouTube and then you'll see the thumbnails with companies like Americans battery factory, setting up a giga factory in Tucson, Arizona, using a very light construction method. So rapid deployment of a large factory and then fryer, a Norwegian battery company, also setting up a giga factory in the US in Georgia. In the next few years. They're building their first plant in Northern Norway, but quickly moving to the US and on that interview with with fryer. You know, I commented to the CEO, I think his name is Jensen, that, you know, I always look to Europe for the future.
00:57:44.909 --> 00:57:57.059
But he he pushed back on that he's like, look, the are the IRA legislation that you have in the US is the best legislation globally for industrial policy.
00:57:52.829 --> 00:58:08.519
And, and you can feel good about that. So that was that was pretty cool that a Norwegian thinks we have awesome legislation around the energy transition here in the US.
00:58:03.989 --> 00:58:09.960
Anything else about this story in California that you want to
00:58:11.610 --> 00:58:53.760
know California is growing, there's gonna be massive batteries. What's cool, our next story, which we don't need to cover, because it's already time, but California is about to be passed by Texas, with utility scale solar deployed, which is cool. It's good to see Texas moving, I think I saw a headline that 40% of Texas, electricity was emission free, they have nuclear, they have a lot of wind, they got solar come in, they got a tiny bit of hydro. So it's, you know, we're building California is going to lead Texas, it's wonderfully Texas is right behind, taking advantage of the massive investments that have been done around the world.
00:58:55.079 --> 00:59:14.460
And now, you know, it's same thing we say every week, Tim, hold on, keep your job as best you can keep being smart. And, you know, if you're in the industry, you're going to be stuck in the industry because we're going to need you so don't go anywhere. Chris, you're not allowed to quit. We need you, Tim, you either. So yeah, keep working.
00:59:15.960 --> 00:59:26.219
Well, we've done it again. We've reached our hour mark. So we're gonna wrap up the show here. Please check out more of our content at clean power.
00:59:22.170 --> 00:59:32.730
hour.com Give us a rating and review. Connect with us on LinkedIn. And how can our listeners find you Mr.
00:59:30.570 --> 00:59:32.730
commercial solar guy.
00:59:33.809 --> 01:00:03.150
COMM or solar guy.com is the primary way to find us we have a nice Contact Us form. We'll be upgrading our website soon. You can also on Twitter, on LinkedIn, and mastodon. Just search john fitzgerald Weaver or commercial solar guy in those places you'll find me somewhere and also I write for PV magazine USA. I tried to do 11 articles per month because I don't know that's somehow the number we came to So, so there you go.
00:59:59.460 --> 01:00:03.150
That's awesome. What about Tim?
01:00:03.179 --> 01:00:06.750
Tim? Where can people find you?
01:00:03.179 --> 01:00:06.750
in Champaign, Illinois, I
01:00:06.750 --> 01:00:30.360
want everyone to go to clean power hour.com. I also have a consulting company clean power dot group, but really go to clean power hour.com Check out our training tab. I have two courses on heat spring one on selling and developing commercial solar, and one on how to decide if a opportunity is good, bad or ugly. And that's my free course.
01:00:30.389 --> 01:00:42.059
So check out the training tab on clean power hour.com. With that, I want to say thank you, John Weaver for all you do and let's grow solar and storage. I'm Tim Montague. Take care of John
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